Episode 98 – Leah – straight mum

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you

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to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series. I’m your host Anna McKie and my aim is to raise the level of awareness of surrogacy through these conversations. This podcast is a recording from a webinar that I host and you can find more details about those and upcoming dates on our website at surrogacyaustralia.org. The webinars are free. Go for an hour and we’ll take you through how surrogacy works in Australia. You can ask questions, typing them in anonymously if you prefer.

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and you hear from a co-host who has navigated surrogacy in Australia, either a surrogate, a gay dad, or a straight mum. This episode is one from the archives, recorded in September 2021, and features Leah. Leah and James are parents through surrogacy, twice. Their first daughter, Eliza, was carried in birth by Leah’s cousin, Belinda. Their second daughter, Ottilie, or Lottie, was carried in birth by Julie, who was previously a stranger.

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They met through the online communities and are now lifelong friends. You can hear from her surrogate Julie in episode 92. It was great to take this trip down memory lane in this episode with Leah. Leah has been a parent mentor with SAS since the early days, so she has helped many people at the beginning of their journeys. Some of the questions which were typed in during the webinar were on topics such as eligibility as an IP, intended parent, for surrogacy, do miscarriages count, do religious beliefs,

01:37
The first birth certificate, do you put the name of the intended father or not? The Medicare card, does the child go onto the surrogates or the parents? IPs being terrified of sharing their story on social media that they have a need for a surrogate, here Leah’s advice on that one. And other discussions included feeling guilty about trying to have a second child through surrogacy, how refreshing it felt to discover the surrogacy community, and resilience and hope were the main lessons for Leah on this journey.

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I hope you enjoy this episode.

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I’m going to segue into Leah though by looking at some of your photos Leah. So we’ll go through this Leah and you quickly saw the photos beforehand. That might be an opportunity to share your journey. Tell us what brought you to surrogacy in the first place. Yeah. So, um, well those pictures were so powerful and they were so beautiful. husband just walked by and I’m like, Oh, it’s just such a good reminder of the beautiful and positive impact that surrogacy has. I think once you have the kids, you kind of forget about it because they need on to the parenting journey. So it was a great reminder for me. So thank you for that. It was so interesting.

02:38
of my journey, what brought me to surrogacy was a cancer diagnosis and then cancer treatments and my husband and I got married at beginning of 2013, you know like all people that get married have.

02:51
these wonderful aspirations of a big family. And then my dad actually went through cancer a few months later and passed away, unfortunately. And then a few months after that, I, um, a routine check and they found that I had cancer. So that was a huge blow, you know, in the same years having lost my dad. Yeah. So I think for me, the worst part of that diagnosis was hearing that I would never be able to carry my own children. just, for me, it was just like, Oh, it was so traumatic. And, um, you

03:21
I certainly went through a lot of grief at that time thinking about that prospect and I had one opportunity to to get some

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some embryos made and luckily we were able to get quite a few embryos so literally they got the eggs out and then the next day my cancer treatment started. Wow, I hear that’s quite common for cancer treatment patients that it’s a very quick turnaround there isn’t it? It’s really quick yeah. As soon as my diagnosis my cousin Belinda called me and said you know we’re very close I’m an only child so she is and has always been like a sister to me so yeah I just remember one day I was on a train actually and

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She just called me and she said, you know, I want to do this for you. I want to be your surrogate. Let me do this for you. And, you know, I was very, very fortunate. I, for us, we went on this journey blindly really, because we, there was certainly no SAS at that time.

04:14
We didn’t even know about this wonderful community that existed on Facebook, so we went out on our own and there’s just so much, like I know what it’s like when you first start out on that journey, you’ve got so many questions and it’s so overwhelming and it’s just really tough, especially in my situation where was dealing with so much with losing dad and then getting my own diagnosis and then being told I could never have kids, like it was just really full on that I was so fortunate to have my cousins.

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had two surrogacy journeys and two very different surrogacy journeys. yeah, for the first one, Belinda with Eliza, we had three transfers, so third time lucky for her. That was really stressful. So, know, Anna, you were saying about, you could know someone I’ve known Belinda my whole life and we’re so close, but then to go through this was so challenging. Definitely.

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It shifts, like one example is often when friends go out for dinner, you split the bill, you go 50-50. But in surrogacy, as a surrogate, we have to let you, as intended parents, pay for things for us and it doesn’t feel natural. And so it changes the dynamic of what you already knew. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, so this is…

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our daughter Eliza. yeah, and obviously Belinda is such a huge part of our life. Yeah, no question. We’re very open and honest with Eliza from day one. She knows her story and these photos. her auntie Belinda is one of her names. She’s got a few names. One of her names is Belinda, so we always remind her about.

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why Belinda is included in her name. Lovely. Yep. So what other photos have I got here? We’ve got, I know it’s just a beautiful photo. So that’s Belinda in hospital with her and then a catch up. born and this is Eliza’s first birthday party where she’s dressed as Moana. Beautiful. Lovely. Now this photo here, just for those who don’t know this full story, these are the two surrogates together. So this is, and this is when Julie, the second tallest surrogate is pregnant. That’s a pretty special photo.

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Very special, very special. So this is at Julie’s baby celebration basically. So you know for Belinda she was very committed to doing all she could.

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to give us the one and which she did and we were so, so fortunate and so lucky and felt so blessed to have Eliza. But we still had quite a few embryos left over and it was just something I knew I always wanted to explore having another. So there’s quite a bit that goes on between the birth of Eliza and getting to this photo of course. Yes, exactly. The whole journey.

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Julie was a stranger and so then your family, Belinda’s family had offered and then so you understood how surrogacy worked but then you’re faced with okay nobody else can do this for us I think we’re gonna have to go out and find someone where do you go for that? Exactly. So you remember coming into the online community then?

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Yeah, and finding it and I remember feeling like, wow, there’s this whole community that we weren’t aware of. And I thought for my cousin, this would have been so helpful for her not feeling like she was alone on the journey. It’s such an isolating journey, especially for us at the time, because we thought we were the only ones really going through it. So then to discover this, this community was so refreshing and there was so much support and so many knowledgeable people. I remember, Anna, you know, you was just so informative and such an

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I think I helped hook you two up, didn’t I? In the old fertility connections forum. Yes, yes. Yeah, so we explored all options. So we explored overseas and we explored local and we met with Sam, we went to a few seminars and then we went to the big surrogacy conference. So we really immersed ourselves in everything surrogacy related. you mentioned before how important it is to be active on social media. For us, that was a really big challenge because we were quite private people.

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So, you we had to really overcome that because we knew that you had to be active to be seen, like you were saying. So did you find ways to do it in authentic ways so that you were still feeling like yourself? Yes.

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commenting and just engaging with people when they post about their stories. And yeah, and then it just kind of naturally progressed from there. yeah, I remember we posted our story in January and there was a lot of guilt for me because I knew we already had one and there was so many IPs looking for surrogates. So I felt that because you feel like you’re taking, you don’t want to take a surrogate off people who aren’t even parents. So really had to overcome that and, you know, tell ourselves that we’re worthy as well as disciplined.

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many. Yeah, so that was challenging and so we did actually look at Canada and we found a surrogate but because we had Eliza and she was so little and just when we thought about

09:00
the practicality of it, it just wouldn’t work. And it was so important for us. knew Belinda would be a big part of our life. So we really wanted someone who was also going to be a big part of our life. And I remember NAU had collected data and put it into a spreadsheet. So we had our story on the surrogacy Facebook page and then the, I don’t know if they still use it for utility connections. No, we let it die end of last year. That’s good to know. Cause I’ve been telling people about it. I’ll just take my- Yeah, I was the only one running it.

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in the end. Okay, good to know. But yeah, so we posted our story on there as well. And so Julie apparently had seen our data on your spreadsheet, I guess about where we were at on our journey. And I think it had embryos and then what clinic and, then from there she looked at our story, found our story and then sent us an email. And then yeah, that’s how

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And then we started our dating and it all happened fairly quickly in terms of getting the counselling happening. The actual journey of getting Ottilie our lives was almost two years but there was a lot that happened in that two years. Like Julie’s dad got really sick and my uncle, Belinda’s dad passed away from cancer.

10:12
We had six hours transfers, so it was quite a journey. we’ve got Ottilie in our lives, we just don’t even think about it really. yeah, so it’s nice to have these moments to pause and go, wow, what did we do? What a massive extra job that we had in our lives. so incredible. And we felt so fortunate to meet Julie. She was a midwife. She still is a midwife. And you know, the biggest difference in the journeys is that Belinda was doing it.

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the us and the love of us. knew us obviously and Julie didn’t know us, she’s a stranger and so we really had to be very respectful of her own journey and her own reasons of wanting to do surrogacy and finding that balance. Is it an easy thing to answer what were Julie’s motivations? I guess I know a lot of surrogates particularly who carry the strangers often enjoy being pregnant and giving birth and wanting that opportunity to do it again. Was that one of her motivators? Yeah, so for her, her…

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daughter that she had was, well, I think when we met her, her daughter might have been 19, she’s now 23, think. So for her, she had a really challenging birth with her daughter and she’s a midwife, so she’s faced with it constantly in the birthing journey. So for her, really wanted to, it was about that birthing, she wanted to give birth, you know, she was very, she felt very connected to that birth journey and she really loved being pregnant, although she had a very challenging pregnancy. And much older too. Yeah, exactly, and much older.

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But for her it was all about the birth. Yeah, you have to fast track a friendship, don’t you, along the way? I do remember her dad being unwell at the time. that, I mean, current teams have COVID thrown in the mix, but you’ve had family health thrown in the mix and just every team’s going to have something. Always going to have something. doesn’t stop. It keeps going. And then you’ve got surrogacy thrown into the mix as well. I’ll ask a question that sometimes potential surrogates ask, but sometimes also IPs would ask if there’s any IPs listening who already have a child and, you know, wondering, you know, should we put

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out there. So Julie clearly who’s a stranger offered to carry for you who did already have one child. You remember her mentioning that? Yeah, we certainly discussed it. So for Julie she’d already had two unsuccessful journeys, like they didn’t get to the point of transfer but they started, initiated the journey and it just didn’t happen. So I think what she liked about us was we’d already done surrogacy so we were definitely committed to it.

12:29
We had the embryos there. We also just happened to have used the same clinic that she had been at with the previous journey. So she was familiar with the clinic. Obviously with COVID, we don’t catch up as much as we’d like now, but certainly initially, you know, the relationship and connection part was really important for us. And we want Ottilie to know how special her auntie Julie is, what an incredible lady she is. it’s really…

12:54
Yeah, yep, that’s lovely. so yeah, and I sometimes hear surrogates say, if you already have one child, they can see you already being parents. So it helps them to visualize what you would be like as parents. And they know that they’re creating a sibling. And sometimes that’s quite appealing too. So you should help complete your family. Yeah, that’s of the feeling. So special. Yeah, I’ll just skim through these couple of photos here. So then these are the

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Happily Ever After. I think I didn’t put them quite the right order there, but again, pretty special tummy photos and sister kiss. Yeah, lovely. then Julie holding Miss Lottie and then some continued catch ups.

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lovely that each girl has a story to tell and that these surrogates are in their lives and that they can say whose tummy they grew in. yeah and with Julie and Ottilie, they obviously don’t see each other much but Ottilie’s connection with Julie it’s just so special, like she just lights up when she sees her, it’s really beautiful. Lovely and that’s lovely that as a mum you’re not threatened by that. I imagine some people at the beginning of a surrogacy journey might be nervous about that but then I think you’re giving examples to people here that it’s not

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something to be nervous about. exactly, no not at all. Yeah focusing on how special it is. They’re surrounded by love.

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all that love. Absolutely. Thank you for giving us that background and I’m sure for anybody listening there, you may have specific questions for Leah there or about surrogacy in general. So we’ll jump straight into some of those questions there. So we’ve got Andy at the top. Leah, you may or may not know of Andy who did a journey in Canada and has his son Orlando. Andy, I’m pretty sure that’s common knowledge. So I don’t think I’ve revealed too much there, but the question is, he’s going through an Australian journey this time around. Medicare card, did your girls go straight onto yours or ever onto the surrogates?

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They went straight onto ours. So automatically they are under the surrogates until their name officially goes on a Medicare card. So that’s interesting. Like say if anything happened in between.

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getting her name on our Medicare would have gone under Julie’s. Yeah, and the other thing I wanted to mention was just in relation to the birth certificate, and I know everyone does it differently, but we were actually told, and so we did this for both girls, that we had the father was James, my husband. Yeah, I think it really comes down to, and it’s probably a conversation you need to have with your surrogate. I mean, for Belinda, she obviously didn’t, well, she didn’t care. So we had Belinda and James, and then.

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Julie and James, but that was also the advice we got from the New South Wales lawyers. Now I’d never heard of that, but two weeks ago when I had another IP session and Mahesh was my co-host, New South Wales again, he said the same thing. Yeah.

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be a New South Wales thing. again, you need to be guided. Don’t let this single webinar dictate everybody’s answers to all your questions. It gives you guidance, doesn’t it? So yeah, Andy there. I think what I hear is don’t ever put the child on a surrogate’s Medicare card because it’s so much harder to get off. Just don’t ever do that part of the process. One of the benefits of putting James’s name on from day dot was that you could actually put the baby’s name on the Medicare card straight away. So that was another benefit.

16:09
That’s a fair question. a woman be eligible as an IP if she’s had premature birth or lost a pregnancy? I mean, I can answer some of those sort of general ones if you like. We’re not doctors. Ultimately, it has to be a fertility specialist that makes that decision, not just a GP. That’s just the way that it works here in Australia. It might be if they can work out the reasons why your body is not holding the pregnancy to term, then that might be the reason. But there might be some other treatments to try first. Unfortunately, I do hear that there’s sometimes cases where you must have to go through

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three miscarriages before your class just being eligible which is a s*** law. It’s not a law but it’s sort of a guidelines that the IVF clinics run by so anonymous you might be eligible but you need to chat to a fertility specialist so if you don’t have a fertility specialist chat to your friends if they know of a clinic and a doctor that they recommend and that then start with an appointment there. Eligibility I’ll just answer perhaps a couple of these quick ones.

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Are religious beliefs an acceptable reason to be eligible? Not that I know of. I’m assuming, Anonymous, you’re asking that as an intended parent as opposed to a surrogate. I’m not aware of any religious beliefs.

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but I do not know every form of religion out there by any means. So no, I’ll answer the second anonymous one there in relation to the fees with SAS. What does the journey support include? I think you’re referring to the bigger package. So briefly at this point in time, we’re keeping aside and that’s the prepaid counseling. So during pregnancy and post-birth and what happens is in the surrogate or the team have counseling sessions and the counselors are engaged with the SAS program. So I’ve got them involved in our program and they send me the bill. My two current SAS teams already though, you know, 30 weeks

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pregnant have already capped out that $1,500 in counselling. So what’s, and so I go to the IPs and we get top-ups. So then they pay for another amount of account or some number of sessions based on the hourly rate of the counsellor. So there’s a good indication that $1,500 is probably not enough, but then in that other $1,500, I guess…

18:01
Once the portal’s up and running and you see all the resources that we’ve got available, it’s for keeping that up to date. It’s access to someone like myself, who is hopefully that reliable source of information that you can ask questions to. If I don’t know the answers, I go out to my mentors so that you don’t have to access a Facebook group. It’s a third party. For example, some of my SAS teams that are pregnant at the moment, I come to her, oh, you’re in your third trimester. Here’s some things to chat about or plan for. What I get is I get the surrogate and the IPs emailing me privately and saying, when you do that update,

18:31
email Anna, can you mention it’d be good to chat about XYZ? So then it looks like SAS is suggesting that we chat about these things. And then as a team, can go, oh yeah, let’s chat about that. They said this was a good thing to talk about. And then it’s not like one of one part of the team looks like the bossy one. And then when you’re pregnant, hormonal and emotional, you’re like, why were you talking about this? Don’t you trust me? That’s so helpful. it’s that third party. And so yeah, had a surrogate too, where I had to top up the counseling. She doesn’t have to go and ask the IPs for that top up.

19:01
do it. Money is yucky to talk about and even though you say as friends we’ll talk about anything and as IPs you’ll pay for it but as a surrogate she hates costing you more money.

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And so if there’s somebody else to help with that awkward conversation, that’s what you’re ultimately paying for. I hope that answers your question anonymous. So Leah, any insights here, tips for people who are terrified of sharing their personal journey on social media? I’m imagining that because Bobby’s asking, perhaps you mean sharing like on your personal page there. Any tips? That’s something that we went through because we’re very private people for our journey with Belinda. We didn’t mention it until the baby was born, but that was also, I had this thinking factor I wasn’t sure.

19:40
Not a pregnancy announcement, just birth. No, yeah. Right? Yeah. The beats of her own. Yeah, exactly. I mean the people that needed to know in your close family, knew. Exactly, yeah, yeah. Right. This was for the, because we’re very private, like we don’t really share much on Facebook. Belinda was the same as well, so. Very happy. Very private. With Julia it was different because she was sharing a lot more publicly, just about her journey, not necessarily naming us. So I think you have to

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do what you feel comfortable with. Like Anna mentioned, there is a SAS program which you can go through if you don’t feel comfortable sharing your journey. But definitely there’s benefit if you don’t have a surrogate in sharing your journey because I know we hear about it in the surrogacy community all the time about people sharing their journey on the Facebook page, on their Facebook page and then finding someone who they wouldn’t have thought of who’s offering to be a surrogate or an egg donor. You can control your audience post as well. So I know I do that all the time. I have my privacy settings on.

20:40
so can control who sees as well. But the other thing to note with sharing your journey on the surrogacy page is that it is a closed page, so anything sharing there isn’t public. Yeah, so that’s true. So if you’re in that ASC group, that’s private. My suggestion, Bobbi, then, would be a bit like the old Christmas card letter that people might write. Maybe do it as an email update then. And you share with your friends and family that you have a need for a surrogate, this is your path.

21:08
word in such a way that you’re asking someone to be a surrogate. Say, this is our past and we’ve now been learning lots about it. We’ve attended a webinar. We’ve been learning about the community and then give people an opportunity to come back to you and say, if anybody would like to know more about our story, please feel free to get in touch. Or if you’re interested in finding out more about surrogacy, head to Surrogacy Australia’s website and there’s lots of free resources that they could read through there. So yeah, Bob, you give people the chance. Maybe that’s a better platform. Again, do you want to be part of the 80 % or the 20 %? I mean,

21:38
Clearly there are people in the 20 % who do match with strangers, but I statistically you’re narrowing your chances there. So you’ve got to be a little bit brave, but still do it in a way that feels comfortable for you. I hope that answers that one Bobby a little bit. Come back and ask us again, if you’ve got a more specific question there. So we’ve got James and Stu, regular attenders to the webinars here. We get people coming back to hear the different stories, which is wonderful. So Leah, you mentioned you were active on social media pages when you’re looking for a surrogate. How frequently would you post updates about your journey or what about your day-to-day life in general? You probably would have seen over

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the shares at the time, you could remember and thinking, I don’t want to be that probably. Yeah. So on the surrogacy page, I would try and go there. I guess the more active you are, the more that the surrogate can see you, you know, being active and you don’t know who’s watching behind the scenes sort of thing. So, you know, watching the comments. So I would try and go on there daily and just comment on people’s posts and things like that. I wasn’t necessarily a poster. That just isn’t in my nature. I’m not an oversharer.

22:38
I yeah, it’s just not something that comes naturally to me, but I did do a few posts in terms of our own journey I do a few shares of fun shares of memes and things but I was much more active in terms of commenting and then starting conversations to go comment

22:52
in that way and it was all very positive. But having heard that, I know you’d be familiar that there’s a not positive side sometimes. Yeah, so I ducked out of that group in May after four years in there. Yeah, it’s a tricky group to be in. It can be a bit high school, sometimes the dynamics and sometimes the surrogates in those groups are a bit us and them. You lose tone of voice, just the written word. Yeah, exactly. The tone certainly gets lost in the writing. But there’s so many other avenues for IPs.

23:22
now. Yeah, I’m really passionate about burnout for people, particularly IPs that I’d imagine that it probably feels like a second part-time job being heavily invested in surrogacy. Contain the energy because you can get really caught up in the dramas that happen in those groups from time to time. Maybe as Leah is saying, sort of allocate some time each day and go in and go, okay, I’ve got the energy now, I’m going to read and comment or maybe do it a couple of times a week for an extended pockets of time. Try not to let it consume your life. Still keep having your life.

23:52
Yeah, that would be my tip. Watch burnout. Emily’s asked, can we clarify the insemination? Why do most take place at home? Why are IVF clinics not on board? Emily, I’m assuming you’re meeting with traditional surrogacy. That’s where it’s the surrogate zone egg. So gestational is where it is, the embryo. And by my data gathering too, it’s about 90%, 10%. So one in 10 are traditional. Why do most take place at home? It’s a great question. I don’t know if the IVF clinics fear.

24:17
traditional surrogacy and think she’s going to be more connected to the baby because she’s genetically related to it and carried it. It’s just like, I don’t know how well you know, IVF, World Emily, it’s just where they would track their cycle. I wonder if it’s partly because they can’t make heaps of money out of you.

24:32
because you don’t have to do a full egg collection cycle then. They’re basically just tracking bloods and then if it’s a gay dad you’re caring for or a hetero couple where it’s his sperm, you know, they’re ultimately making less money from it. That could be part of the reason. I think it’s just something that they haven’t done much of so they’re just nervous about it. It’s something we’re really working towards. I hope that helps answer that Emily. Anonymous, it complicated with the legalities when a known surrogate to the IP comes from overseas? It doesn’t happen all that often. So I’m thinking, for example, there was Trudy.

25:02
don’t know how, if you’re in the Sorority community, it’s Trudy Bateman. They had a baby Bonnie about this time last year and her sister-in-law from New York carried for them. So that would probably be an example. Maybe you’ve got a family member overseas. Do you know many cases, Leigh, of it happening? No, I wonder if that’s, I did see a story on SBS Q &A, think, oh, one of them, but I wonder if it was that story, I wonder if it was Bonnie, because I remember the sister had come over from New York.

25:28
Yeah, could have been that one. Yeah. So again, it goes by the laws of where the IPs live. So if the IPs within Australia, then it’s still going by Australian law, even if the surrogate lives overseas. I know the surrogate was in

25:40
South Africa, one from New Zealand, this one from New York, there might’ve been one from the UK as well. Much harder with COVID at the moment too, because I think most Australian IVF clinics would require that the embryo transfer happens here. So if you’re tracking her cycles monthly, I don’t know how that’s possible at the moment. You could probably still be completing some of the paperwork, but if 80 % of people find a surrogate through a known connection, if you’ve got a woman willing to be your surrogate, I’d move Kevin and Earth.

26:07
To see if you can make that happen because I think finding a surrogate is the hardest part of this battle in the hardest times of surrogacy either journey What’s something you learn about yourself or a life skill that you look back on and go? learned that because of that. Yeah resilience and hope I feel like they go hand in hand not to give up never give up hope I mean, there’s so many challenges. It’s such a rollercoaster like any journey is like that Yeah, just that hope is what keeps you going is what gets you through it and just not allowing us

26:37
very just realising how dogmatic I was about that hope. Like I had a goal and just sticking to it. I’ll ask another one and communication. Were there times where now so Julie was single too, there’d be challenges where normal rational Julie or Belinda suddenly throw in a surrogate pregnancy to the mix the way they interact and handle life might

26:58
change? you have some occasions and any advice to teams in those moments? Yeah, I think I’ve heard you talk about love language and I think that that’s something a resource as part of the SAS program. I think that’s so good. It would have been great to do that with Julie because she was a stranger to us. Communication was an area. Look, if I had my time again, I think I would have been. We were just so thankful we found Julie and we just felt so lucky and we’re like, you know, whatever. We’re both easygoing as well. So we’re like, oh, we’ll just make it work.

27:28
hindsight I would have been a little bit stricter, pushed a little bit more on that awkward conversation around the communication and the expectations there because duly you know communicating via text then oh my gosh sometimes the waiting for a return text and take your days and yeah so I think the communication that is really important to work out what’s going to be good.

27:49
you know for both parties. What I’ve heard some teams do is that they had a Sunday call every Sunday. It like a family catch up for half an hour. I’m like that is such a great idea because you’re touching base. So anything that happens during the week that’s fine but at least you’re connecting once a week. I think that’s a really good strategy. Yeah that reminds me of two little tips. Our team had, I think we had a rule that you have to reply within 24 hours to a message. So yeah wish we had that rule. Right, yeah.

28:14
Now post birth though, we still sort of maintain it but not quite but that’s okay, that’s fine now. And something that’s really important, I think I’ve been an anxious person in my time and knowing when the next catch up was gonna happen when we finished one catch up. So if I knew that there was a weekly call, that would put me at ease knowing they’ve scheduled me into their life. Knowing that, and Matt was always the one that would remember to ask, okay, let’s plan the next one. Now, once we were pregnant, there were appointments but then it was post birth, it was knowing because life of the new

28:44
gets busy and if you don’t schedule it in a week or two can go by.

28:47
And it’s not that they didn’t care, it’s just their sleep deprived. And so that would be my tip for surrogates anxieties, scheduling the next catch up. So particularly if you’re going to be an interstate team or a long distance team, plan the next catch up. Even if you booked that weekend in, cancel it in six months in advance, that will put her anxieties at ease knowing that or having the schedule in calls and whatever. Because in some ways that might put a surrogate at ease, but then if you’ve got IP to with a surrogate who doesn’t do much communicating herself.

29:15
they the ips need put it ease well i wouldn’t like that yeah you’re carrying my baby i would just like a few little updates what if you’re dead and i don’t know yeah those sorts of things so

29:27
Well, just anonymous one last one there, Leah, was it hard seeing your cousin pregnant with your baby? This would be a classic question for women, knowing that you physically couldn’t do it yourself. Is it something perhaps in that grief process at the beginning? I think we’d already been through that for sure. I, know, another thing that I learned about myself was just my ability to focus on that positive. And we just really focused on how lucky they were that someone was willing to sacrifice so much and what an incredible person my cousin was and the Julie. I never really went through that.

29:57
I didn’t allow myself to think like that at all. I was just so thankful. Did you have any counseling to get to that point? No, no, so we have the pre-counseling. Yeah, I think I’ve spoken with you about this before, Anna, that I really think that something that’s missing in the way that the process is at the moment is you’ve got the pre-counseling, you’ve got post-counseling, but then there’s nothing in between. And, you know, that was the challenging part for us, that in between, just the trust. And it’s so hard trusting even something you know, but then trusting it completely.

30:27
stranger, you just have to trust. There’s no other option. You have to trust and you just have to be really thankful, focusing on the gratitude that they’re willing to carry your baby. Yep, good advice there. So Anonymous, I’d advise some pre-surrogacy counseling because that fear is a really common fear for intended mums to worry about how they’re going to feel. That’s a really normal thing to feel at the beginning. So you’re not alone in that. I’d advise some counseling before surrogacy. And I know the SAS teams who some teams have pre-surrogacy counseling before the mandatory counseling.

30:57
always come away going that was great because it really helped me think about what journey do I want even if I have a surrogate or not right now it helps me think about who would be a good fit and what type of journey I want and anonymous that might help you work out if you do if Australia is a good fit for you or not it would help you work out all of those things so it’s totally fine to have lots of questions at the beginning and lots of wonderings there isn’t it so any last-minute parting advice there Leah any thoughts to pass on or done it all um I really think about that hope you’re worthy of this journey

31:27
and don’t give up your hope that your parenting journey is going to happen. So, you know, it can be really challenging and there’s many moments where we’ve given up, my husband and I, that we just kept going and we’re so thankful that we did. Once you get those beautiful children in your lives, it’s just, yeah. And we wish the madness of parenthood on all of you. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Thank you for sharing your time with me for this episode.

31:55
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