Episode 35 – Angela – straight mum

00:14
Welcome to our podcast series with Surrogacy Australia. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and in turn for helping us spread awareness and appreciation for surrogacy. I’m your host Anna McKay and these recordings are from a regular webinar series that I run. You can find upcoming dates on our website at surrogacy Australia.org. During the one-hour webinars I will walk you through the surrogacy process in Australia and you can type in questions for us to answer.

00:44
and they alternate between surrogates, gay dads, and straight mums. This episode, recorded in December 2023, features Angela. Angela and husband Sandro from Melbourne became parents to their daughter, Milana, in November 2016. Milana was carried by surrogate Cindy, who was previously a stranger, and was also created using donor eggs from Melinda, whom they met through Egg Donation Australia. It was a very long journey to parenthood, with Angela birthing two stillbirths at 24

01:14
and two miscarriages before a four year surrogacy journey with five embryo transfers to Cindy, one was a miscarriage at eight weeks. So a very determined surrogacy team. In this episode, we summarize Angela’s long journey and of particular note is how she brought her team together through her project management skills. Although she may not have birthed her daughter or be genetically related, she did bring her into this world through her ability to bring people together.

01:40
We had a few questions typed into the webinar, which I answered, and they were asking about the Zoom monthly catch-ups, how long to be matched with a surrogate, is there a priority list, and what are the chances of finding a surrogate if you already have one child? We finished by discussing what changes we would like to see for surrogacy in Australia. I hope you enjoy this episode. Angela.

02:00
You’ve had quite a long journey to become a mum, and you eventually needed an egg donor and a surrogate. Can you take us back to the beginning and give us a bit of a nutshell version of how you needed an egg donor and a surrogate, how you found them and- Oh, usually it’s the reverse. It’s usually egg donor first. So in 2008, I had my first stillbirth. Got pregnant very quickly, but at 24 weeks, didn’t look good, the baby wasn’t growing, and I had to have a stillbirth.

02:27
One of those things, so we thought we’d go again. And 2009, I had two miscarriages. I used to get pregnant quickly, had two miscarriages. Okay, just gotta keep trying. 2010, I had another stillbirth at 25. I suppose I never forget my doctor was like, you’re not gonna have, what are you doing? You know, why? You just, my body couldn’t do this anymore. Yes. And it just hit me, I don’t know why, why.

02:57
Was there an official diagnosis for that? Or was it just more, when your body’s not gonna take it? So they basically, I have an autoimmune condition where the baby was growing, but it would have a severe growth restriction because my body would protect any foreign object. Cause I tried blood thinning injections, I tried naturopathy, you do everything possible. And I was told, your body’s not able to carry it. So I was given an official diagnosis.

03:26
And I remember my doctor said, look, you need to go see fertility specialist. I think you need to do. Surrogacy. This is in 2011. So it’s a, it’s a long time ago. Facebook didn’t really exist. None of this information available. And I thought, okay, before I go down this track.

03:45
Maybe we look at doing fostering because we had friends that had done fostering. And we went to DHS, which is Department of Human Services in Victoria. We looked at doing adopting and fostering, but they clearly said, if you decide to do this path, you can’t do any type of other IVF or any other type of anything else. Yes. Time was ticking. I was, they were like, you know, if you want to adopt, you can’t be over 40, 45, I was getting close to 40 and we were actually going to consider doing adopting.

04:15
And I’ll never forget the day after we did the course, my husband was like, oh don’t everything possible for it to be ours, you know, our egg and sperm. We, you know, maybe there is a possibility, surrogacy, we’d heard of surrogacy. I think Sonia Kruger had kind of made it famous back then. So that night, I remember so clearly, I went back home and I started Googling and I thought, how do you like?

04:41
surrogacy Australia. How do you find a surrogate? I joined a forum. It was called bubhub.com.au back then. I don’t even know if it still exists. You know, it was a forum back then. And I just told my story. And that was in 2011. And I was just like, I didn’t know what to do. I was like, I know I need a surrogate. But there wasn’t a lot of information. I kind of knew I didn’t want to do commercial surrogacy. It was not an option to go overseas and do a cat.

05:09
surrogacy, I wanted to see how could we do it here and sure and behold Cindy just contacted me like she’s my angel and it’s bizarre you just think you know is this real? I remember her contacting me and she was like you know I’ve been and she’d been an egg donor before and she wanted to be a surrogate, she knew the process and I was just like really why would you want to do this you know? Who are these crazy women?

05:38
She knew a lot more than what I did. I actually just said to her, okay we will meet and she was two hours from Melbourne so she’s in the country and we developed a relationship through email and then eventually we met. You know there was no real support through like an external anyone to help. There wasn’t really but Cindy did know a little bit more.

06:01
through Monash IVF, because that’s who I’d gone through. And that’s how I met Rita Alesi. She was just like, this is what you have to do. Which is very overwhelming. I get it. It was so overwhelming. But I found the hardest part. He was finding a surrogate. Yes, you found one. Yeah, you put your story out there. It was already out there and I found that first. And I thought, wow. So that’s what we did. And then I remember back then I was going through Monash IVF. I decided to Monash IVF,

06:31
reputation back then and I happened to get Dr. Lynn Burmeister who I didn’t know at the time had just done Sonia Kruger’s. I didn’t know. I went to Lynn Burmeister and I said, you know, I found a surrogate and she’s like, okay, let’s just get to it. I don’t know if anyone has or is using Lynn but she’s a very particular woman and I’m very grateful.

06:56
because that’s what I needed to hear. It was like let’s get to it. You found a surrogate, let’s get the process started. And I suppose some of the people and women listening might be wondering, well were you able to use your own eggs? You know the story is that you needed an egg donor. At what point did you find out that that was also going to be your path? That actually took like four years before I knew about egg donors. So we’ve done all the counseling but Lyn was very particular. She didn’t really like to go by the book sometimes.

07:25
She was like, we don’t have time. We need to stimulate your eggs. We need to get eggs happening. You’re getting old. You’ve got to start. I went through four IVF collection. I would always get eggs to stimulate, but they would never fertilize enough to day five with my husband’s sperm. By the fourth time we ended up getting some Bible embryos, they got graded and Lyn was like, well, you know, they’re okay. Let’s quarantine them.

07:51
So, you know, there was the three months we have to phrase them. In the meantime, we were doing all the counseling because there was a lot of stuff, so much counseling. Once we got approval, once we set the PRP, back then you had to wait. I don’t know if you have…

08:05
wait? Maybe a little bit of time, a cooling off period perhaps. We had to wait for approval before we could start insemination into Cindy. Once we got approval we were like okay let’s go. So Cindy tried four times with our embryos. Wow. There was one time she miscarried which was devastating. Hard for everyone. Just devastating. And I remember I had one embryo left.

08:31
Lynn Burmeister was quite blunt, like, and I needed her to be 100% honest because it was, it takes its toll on you. She said to me, you know, your eggs don’t really pop. I don’t think this is going to be viable. And I just thought, oh my God, what am I doing? Like this was just taking its toll. And I remember I said, that’s it, we just can’t do this anymore. And I said to Cindy,

08:56
I just can’t financially mentally deal with these. I even said to my husband, maybe I can’t give you children. Let’s divorce because you know, you go through these emotions and I totally get it. Like as a, you can’t, I can’t do it. I can’t do this. So we took a year break and Cindy was just like, I’m here for the longer you’re ready. And I knew she wanted to tell me about Egg Donors but she just didn’t know when or how. Cause she was just like,

09:25
Sometimes you just need to get there on your own. And we always stayed in contact. We took, I took a year off, but always kept in contact. And then Cindy, have you ever thought, and why don’t you join EECS donations? I’ll show you on Facebook. And I just thought, hmm, okay, I may as well. So I was really quiet on that. Just listened to many stories. I was, had to deal with the emotion of, okay, I can’t carry. And then it wasn’t gonna be.

09:50
So I just thought, is this what I need to do? And then something in me was just like, I just knew that it’s what I thought was going to happen. It’s not. And I think I wrote and I said to you, if you really want something and you really believe it, it just might not be the way. It might come in a different format, but if you really want to be a mom, really want to be a parent, and there’s other possibilities to try, if you’ve got it within you to give it a go, try. I try. I have a surrogate.

10:20
someone that wants to do this for me. So you know, it was 2015, I remember. So I met Cindy in 2011, it’s a long time ago, a long time. I’d never forget it was, it was Valentine’s night. We were at home, my husband and I were at home and I was on Egg Donation Australia and I decided to just share my story again and I was just like, I’ve got to start again. Told my story and again, like you had said, you can’t desperately ask people or you know, you can’t advertise. It was

10:49
me to say that night at like 11 o’clock a night I randomly get a private message from Melinda and she’s in Newcastle another stage and in an egg donor before and I was just like it happened. And I think that’s great for people listening just showing that it’s actually much usually much easier to find a donor there are more women considering stepping forward to be donors than there are surrogates so this can happen.

11:13
and can happen quite quickly. So if you share your story and let people get to know you, it can happen. It was so because, you know, I remember my mom just saying, like, it’s just like donating blood or giving a cell to make a child. There’s so many more things to it. And then I was just like, wow, I just found two amazing women. Like, it’s just, it’s a surreal feeling as an intendant parent when this happens. When you ask for…

11:40
It’s amazing what because I’m a bit of a control freak. You know, I’m just like, I can do this on my own. When you become a bit more vulnerable and you ask for help, it’s amazing what the universe can bring. Beautiful. I really believe that because I’m a living example of it. And there were two complete strangers that don’t know each other from two different states. That’s probably a good opportunity to then go to the photos and say, then it worked, didn’t it? So you did the egg collection.

12:07
with Melinda and then yeah, she stimulated a lot of eggs that were that all happened in Newcastle and then when that was ready, I had to fly her down quickly fly down to Melbourne and I had never met her face to face. Obviously, actually before we can start that process, we had to sit the PRP again. I have to say that again, go back. We actually had to go through that process again due counseling. Yes, because there was a third party involved. We had to sit the PRP.

12:35
panel again, give us the go ahead that we could start again. So just remember that had to all be done first. I remember picking up Melinda at the airport, took her straight to Epworth, retrieved the eggs. We ended up getting five embryos from that to day five. So that was a really good result. And the first time I remember saying, okay, we’ve got an egg donor, sorry, it’s going to happen. It didn’t work. And you’re like, oh gosh, here we go again. And I was like, oh my.

13:05
Gosh, this is, you know, you can’t even imagine. I just never forget there was like, okay, we’re gonna do this again one more time. I mean, there’s always that one more time. But you have to know when that is, that one more time. And then that, and Milana was that time. She was that second time. It’s amazing. And I still to this day, and I remember I was telling you about it, you know, my close circle of friends and people that know me know this story. But now…

13:33
know, Milana’s seven years old now. You you keep forgetting how special and how much of a miracle she really is. And so in some of these photos here, you know, getting to attend some of the scans and things, I mean you’d obviously been pregnant yourself. How was it seeing Milana growing there? I imagine there’d still be some nerves. Yes, I was there at every scan. I was there. I remember clearly, you know, at my 16, 17, 18 weeks I would always, there would always be something wrong with

14:03
when I was carrying you. I was really scared through the whole pregnancy. I could honestly, I could never be really excited. And I remember saying to Cindy, you know, I want a live baby. You know, she had already had one, she’d already had four natural births of her own. I knew there was a very good possibility Milana would be born at home or very quickly.

14:30
So Cindy is a midwife as well and she also has also some foster kids of her own and she’s got four of her own. Yep, she’s an amazing woman based in Trafalgar and she works in Moragore. She was like, look, I’m happy, she was happy to like have an induced or a caesarean for me or…

14:51
if I wanted to. And I was just like, you’ve had four natural births, I can’t do this. You know, I was too scared. Birth for me was never a happy thing because I’d had two still births of my own. There was a lot of work I had to do on my own, on myself. Did you have any ongoing counseling to help with that or was just you processing it? It was counseling and me processing it because I was, I’ll never forget, Cindy was like…

15:15
Milana was 40 weeks, 40 weeks and three days. She made us wait the whole time. I was like, surely she’s coming, surely she’s coming. You think you’re gonna be prepared, you’re never prepared. And I’ll never forget, it was a Saturday morning, Cindy rings at 5.30 and she’s like, I think it’s coming, I think it’s coming, you better get ready. Sandra and I were like, okay, we don’t get in the car, it’s an hour and a half drive, let’s get in the car. 20 minutes later, we’re still at home.

15:41
It brings me and she’s like, do you want to meet your daughter? And I never forget, I just said to Cindy, is she alive? That was the first thing I said, is she alive? Is she breathing? And she’s like, yes, she is. And here’s your daughter. And I was just like, oh my God. So Milana was born in the bathroom. Like she literally called her. It was a very, Milana was within 20, I think it was almost 30 minutes.

16:05
Amazing. I’m going to tell my little story there that this birth is quite significant to me because when I had entered the surrogacy community, Cindy was one of the first surrogates among the surrogates only group to birth. And so it was like, wow, this stuff really happens. And then I collected data and statistics on surrogate births, like their age. And one of the questions I asked, because it was a question that IPs often asked is, are we at the birth? Do IPs get to be at the birth?

16:30
And Cindy was one of the rare occasions where, no, the IPs were not at the birth, but that wasn’t because they weren’t allowed to be, it was because it was so quick. And so for any IPs listening, yes, the vast majority of the time, IPs are at the birth and so it’s want you there. So I’m guessing you got there, but then these other photos to come are in the hospital. So did you all go to the hospital together? So what happened by the time she had the ambulance get her from where she lives

17:00
There was only like a 20 minute difference. So she’d only been there like 20 minutes before us. They literally, as soon as I got there, they just put Milana on my chest, skin to skin, straight away. Yeah, Milana, she was never breastfed. You talk about how you, they talk about how you want it to be, but sometimes things just don’t happen. It was about an hour and 20 minutes after her birth I was there. So she never left my side from that time.

17:26
And you guys were mum and dad from that moment? Mum and dad. So we had two separate rooms while Cindy was healing in her room. A lot of the nurses she had worked with, because she worked at the hospital. And I was in the other room and we stayed there for two nights. And Sandra would come back and forth because it was an hour and a half drive. And I stayed there for the whole time until we left.

17:49
and then she came. I think we’ve got some photos of that coming up so this is a photo guys all together. Yeah. Big smiles and then when you you bring her home and she gets to meet your fur baby. Yes so Zara who you know who passed away last year she was my fur baby she was um 12 years old so when I first got her she was from my second stillbirth I needed to have her.

18:11
So she was my my baby for six years before Milana came along and meant the world to me. Yes. And she healed me really. And I’ll never forget I said to Sandra I was like oh my gosh you know how does that happen? You know you come home with the baby like how does that work? As soon as I came home that was it. So for the first six years of Milana’s life Zara was a big part of it. Kids are great with animals. It’s amazing. Yeah so that’s Cindy coming to our house to visit and um the bottom pictures of two of her girl.

18:41
We don’t see each other as often now being, you know, in the country and just with school, holiday and stuff, try to catch up during the holidays, so which is good. Lovely. And that’s what life looks like. People get busy and that’s what we expect of you as parents to be busy. And it’s just lovely, you know, Milana to be able to see these photos of her story. And there’s your big girl now. Yeah, that was, yeah, November this year, when she turned seven.

19:04
So that’s her there. It’s not just the whole surrogacy and the whole birth of it. It’s also like, she’s now seven. She asks questions about it. You know, we don’t look the same. I used to walk my dog every morning. Seven K’s every morning. I remember the next day I’d be walking, my pushing a pram. And people would be like, what the hell? My daughter wants to meet everyone who is just young.

19:26
Please do. Hi, Milana, I’m Anna. Hello, we’re talking about surrogacy and the journey to bring you into this world. Here’s a photo of you. What was happening in this photo, Milana? I’m having my seventh. Happy birthday. And then you know who’s in those photos? You were little, weren’t you? I know. You were tiny.

19:44
We’ve got an album. So yeah. Well, there you go. And see, this is lovely for people listening and watching tonight to meet Milana and go, this really happens. Kids are- I know it does. It does. But yeah, I was saying, I remember like walking. You know, all of a sudden I was walking the dog. And then all of a sudden I’m pushing a pram. People are like, you know, how do you handle that? You can see you be pregnant. Or like, oh, you know.

20:06
where’d she from you know or or something like that you know and as they get older she knows like she has a surrogate a birth mom and then you have me and i always want my story to my friends and they laugh they laugh because she’s starting to try and tell her friends it’s actually quite funny because you know they think you’re really cool because you’ve got a birth mom and me

20:27
Wonderful. I’ve been a surrogate too. I carried a baby for two dads. We had a little boy together and I’ve got two kids, similar age to you. I tell you what I’m looking forward to doing in the future. I’d like to run a webinar in the future where I have the kids born from surrogacy. They come on and talk when they all start to get old enough. So maybe- Old enough, yeah, maybe should be one of those. Wonderful. It’s true and it’s so amazing like now, families are made up different ways. Yes, and that’s something that I’m so passionate about that I would love when-

20:57
my surrogate baby Baker goes to school or Milana that it’s okay to say whose tummy did you grow in? You don’t have to have grown in your mum’s tummy or if you’ve got two dads it’s like okay you’ve got two dads and whose tummy did you grow in? It’s amazing how yeah kids are fine and having photo there helps too. Angela there are other parts of your story then that you’re really proud of or you found really challenging or advice that you’d like to pass on? I remember struggling with you

21:26
can’t carry in this journey, what is my role? And I’ll never forget being a project manager and bringing this all together and yes, putting it all together and it’s like, if it wasn’t for me to streamline all this or do all this, it wouldn’t have been. So you brought your little girl into this world. Yeah, I’m just as important as everything else that makes part of it, you know? Your ability to build friendships and connections with people and coordinate it, you brought her into this world because of that too.

21:56
And look for any intended parent out there, if you really want to, there are ways. Yes, patience and persistence. I think even now after a few years, it’s starting to change. Yeah, I’ve certainly seen change in my time here, so hopefully in the right direction. Yes. I might answer just a couple of questions that have come through because they’re a little bit more about SASS. So Mary asks, are the monthly catch-ups part of the membership or are they free? They’re free!

22:19
That’s again, something I’m really passionate about. You should be able to find people for free. And so yes, those Zoom monthly catch-ups are absolutely free. And hence are these webinars. And then Mary also asks, how long roughly is the process of potentially being matched with a surrogate? That’s a million dollar question. Be that if you’re finding someone through an online group or through the paid service like SaaS, the answer is it could be never.

22:42
hate saying that, it could be fast. Depends on when a surrogate is at the point of looking at profiles of intended parents. And so I make recommendations, but she gets access to all the IPs in Australia. Well, the ones that joined SASS, of course, and have done their profiles. But based on where she lives, if she wants to carry for a local person or couple, if she wants to carry for a straight or a gay couple, I might make recommendations of which profiles to look at. So you might’ve only been in that.

23:07
pool of IPs for a couple of months when a surrogate comes along. But I would say do everything within your power to try and make it happen for yourself, which is what can you do? You can be active. So coming to those Zoom monthly catch-ups and being seen, I tell you how that works, is that if you come not expecting to find a surrogate from those, but surrogates talk and there are surrogates that attend those Zooms. And so when another new surrogate comes along and says, hey, I’m new and I’m looking for IPs, those surrogates have got to know you.

23:35
and see that you contribute to the community, go, hey, there’s some really nice IPs in Sydney that I know. Oh, you’re in Sydney too. They might be worth looking into. It’s kind of a bit like a background check that somebody knows you then, and you might be worth chatting to. And Mary says, is there a priority in terms of need? For example, I’m looking to extend my family as opposed to needing a first bump. Another great question. No, surrogates carry for different people.

23:59
advice there. The very first podcast episode, Scroll back, Kirsty-Lee, she specifically wanted to carry four IPs who already had one kid because her motivation for being a surrogate was to expand a family and to give a kid a sibling. Surrogates come at it for different reasons. So don’t let that put you off that because you’ve already had one child that that means that that’s going to exclude you. Look, it might exclude you from some surrogates, but often the surrogates who go the second time, they sometimes like to see

24:25
parents being parents and they kind of know what type of parents you’re going to be by seeing you with a kid. So sometimes that actually works in your favor. I hope that’s helped to answer some of your questions, Mary. Well done for being brave and asking some. Well, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you Anna, I’ll be doing a wonderful job. I think it’s great. I wish it were back then. It would have been so much easier.

24:45
I think you’re doing a wonderful job. Thank you. That’s the teacher in me. I think I found my calling. When I started doing this sort of stuff, I went, who am I in this surrogacy world? I’m not a doctor, I’m not a lawyer, I’m not a counselor, because they’re the main people who work in surrogacy. So what am I? And I’ve decided I’m an educator. I’m really passionate about helping people at the beginning. There are so many people.

25:04
Once you’re on the journey, the counselors, the doctors and lawyers, they help you along there. But what about when you’re right at the beginning and you’re feeling lost and overwhelmed? It’s overwhelming. It’s like, what do you do? They just say, okay, this is what you have to do. You need to do this, you need to do that. You need to find a counselor, you need to get two lawyers, you need to do that. And it’s like, you’ve got to do it yourself. And so it’s funny, VIPs that have joined SASS and a full SASS team, like we’re on SMS now.

25:28
You know, and so it’s that they can ask quick little questions along the way. So that to save them asking in Facebook groups. And if I don’t know a particular answer, let’s say it’s a legal question in a different state, the trick is through going with me is I will find the answer out for you because I’ve got my mentors in every state.

25:45
And I’ve got contacts with all the counselors and lawyers and they reply to me quickly. And so I can ask people to get those questions answered. So just knowing you’ve kind of got somebody, it’s like a friend that can help guide you a little bit more. And who knows where surrogacy will grow. There’s…

25:59
Perhaps there’s one last question. If there was any change that you would like to see for surrogacy in Australia to streamline the journey a bit more or something, is there some particular change that you would like to see? So one of my good friends is a barrister. She helped me on this journey and I believe you know you need to write. I hope it changes to more commercial surrogacy, but it just becomes easier for intended parents. It’s so interesting you mentioned this because just on the previous webinar podcast with a surrogate, we were talking about this, that she is pro a change.

26:29
to either compensated commercial surrogacy, and so am I. I think- I agree with that, because I just think, why? And that’s why we didn’t wanna do commercial surrogacy in overseas. We didn’t wanna be forced to leave our country to go down that track. That is where I hope that that’s where it changes. I really do. I think it will, in the time that I’ll be working in this industry to have more expenses covered for the surrogate without questioning them as much, and maybe a five to $10,000 payment.

26:57
for, you know, take your family on a holiday for the wear and tear on your body. 100%, 100%, well, in my case, it was more than 10 months because it was, you know, you’re not just carrying the baby, it’s the whole thing before. And for Cindy, she went through a miscarriage and many embryo transfers and put her life on the line for you guys for many years.

27:18
in some ways. You know, if it did go compensated commercial, perhaps more women would step forward and consider being sorry. Yeah, I agree 100% because it’s a big ass, it’s a big gift to give. And it would still be a gift. Yeah, it is. Just to cover the costs a little bit more. And I really hope that does change. Well good, I’m glad to get your insights on that one too. Yeah, I do. Well thank you for sharing your story with us. It’s lovely to summarize it even many years down the track. I know, I know. So it’s been many years.

27:47
Thank you for listening to this episode. To see the beautiful images mentioned, head to our YouTube channel to watch the webinar recording there. If you’re looking for more support and potentially connecting with a surrogate or intended parents, head to our website, surr to check out the resources and to learn more about SASS. Please subscribe to this podcast if you found it valuable and share it with someone so they too can benefit from this conversation. Until next time, welcome to the village.

and go, this really happens. Kids are- I know it does. It does. But yeah, I was saying, I remember like walking. You know, all of a sudden I was walking the dog. And then all of a sudden I’m pushing a pram. People are like, you know, how do you handle that? You can see you be pregnant. Or like, oh, you know.

20:06
where’d she from you know or or something like that you know and as they get older she knows like she has a surrogate a birth mom and then you have me and i always want my story to my friends and they laugh they laugh because she’s starting to try and tell her friends it’s actually quite funny because you know they think you’re really cool because you’ve got a birth mom and me

20:27
Wonderful. I’ve been a surrogate too. I carried a baby for two dads. We had a little boy together and I’ve got two kids, similar age to you. I tell you what I’m looking forward to doing in the future. I’d like to run a webinar in the future where I have the kids born from surrogacy. They come on and talk when they all start to get old enough. So maybe- Old enough, yeah, maybe should be one of those. Wonderful. It’s true and it’s so amazing like now, families are made up different ways. Yes, and that’s something that I’m so passionate about that I would love when-

20:57
my surrogate baby Baker goes to school or Milana that it’s okay to say whose tummy did you grow in? You don’t have to have grown in your mum’s tummy or if you’ve got two dads it’s like okay you’ve got two dads and whose tummy did you grow in? It’s amazing how yeah kids are fine and having photo there helps too. Angela there are other parts of your story then that you’re really proud of or you found really challenging or advice that you’d like to pass on? I remember struggling with you

21:26
can’t carry in this journey, what is my role? And I’ll never forget being a project manager and bringing this all together and yes, putting it all together and it’s like, if it wasn’t for me to streamline all this or do all this, it wouldn’t have been. So you brought your little girl into this world. Yeah, I’m just as important as everything else that makes part of it, you know? Your ability to build friendships and connections with people and coordinate it, you brought her into this world because of that too.

21:56
And look for any intended parent out there, if you really want to, there are ways. Yes, patience and persistence. I think even now after a few years, it’s starting to change. Yeah, I’ve certainly seen change in my time here, so hopefully in the right direction. Yes. I might answer just a couple of questions that have come through because they’re a little bit more about SASS. So Mary asks, are the monthly catch-ups part of the membership or are they free? They’re free!

22:19
That’s again, something I’m really passionate about. You should be able to find people for free. And so yes, those Zoom monthly catch-ups are absolutely free. And hence are these webinars. And then Mary also asks, how long roughly is the process of potentially being matched with a surrogate? That’s a million dollar question. Be that if you’re finding someone through an online group or through the paid service like SaaS, the answer is it could be never.

22:42
hate saying that, it could be fast. Depends on when a surrogate is at the point of looking at profiles of intended parents. And so I make recommendations, but she gets access to all the IPs in Australia. Well, the ones that joined SAS, of course, and have done their profiles. But based on where she lives, if she wants to carry for a local person or couple, if she wants to carry for a straight or a gay couple, I might make recommendations of which profiles to look at. So you might’ve only been in that.

23:07
pool of IPs for a couple of months when a surrogate comes along. But I would say do everything within your power to try and make it happen for yourself, which is what can you do? You can be active. So coming to those Zoom monthly catch-ups and being seen, I tell you how that works, is that if you come not expecting to find a surrogate from those, but surrogates talk and there are surrogates that attend those Zooms. And so when another new surrogate comes along and says, hey, I’m new and I’m looking for IPs, those surrogates have got to know you.

23:35
and see that you contribute to the community, go, hey, there’s some really nice IPs in Sydney that I know. Oh, you’re in Sydney too. They might be worth looking into. It’s kind of a bit like a background check that somebody knows you then, and you might be worth chatting to. And Mary says, is there a priority in terms of need? For example, I’m looking to extend my family as opposed to needing a first bump. Another great question. No, surrogates carry for different people.

23:59
advice there. The very first podcast episode, Scroll back, Kirsty-Lea, she specifically wanted to carry four IPs who already had one kid because her motivation for being a surrogate was to expand a family and to give a kid a sibling. Surrogates come at it for different reasons. So don’t let that put you off that because you’ve already had one child that that means that that’s going to exclude you. Look, it might exclude you from some surrogates, but often the surrogates who go the second time, they sometimes like to see

24:25
parents being parents and they kind of know what type of parents you’re going to be by seeing you with a kid. So sometimes that actually works in your favor. I hope that’s helped to answer some of your questions, Mary. Well done for being brave and asking some. Well, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you Anna, I’ll be doing a wonderful job. I think it’s great. I wish it were back then. It would have been so much easier.

24:45
I think you’re doing a wonderful job. Thank you. That’s the teacher in me. I think I found my calling. When I started doing this sort of stuff, I went, who am I in this surrogacy world? I’m not a doctor, I’m not a lawyer, I’m not a counselor, because they’re the main people who work in surrogacy. So what am I? And I’ve decided I’m an educator. I’m really passionate about helping people at the beginning. There are so many people.

25:04
Once you’re on the journey, the counselors, the doctors and lawyers, they help you along there. But what about when you’re right at the beginning and you’re feeling lost and overwhelmed? It’s overwhelming. It’s like, what do you do? They just say, okay, this is what you have to do. You need to do this, you need to do that. You need to find a counselor, you need to get two lawyers, you need to do that. And it’s like, you’ve got to do it yourself. And so it’s funny, VIPs that have joined SASS and a full SASS team, like we’re on SMS now.

25:28
You know, and so it’s that they can ask quick little questions along the way. So that to save them asking in Facebook groups. And if I don’t know a particular answer, let’s say it’s a legal question in a different state, the trick is through going with me is I will find the answer out for you because I’ve got my mentors in every state.

25:45
And I’ve got contacts with all the counselors and lawyers and they reply to me quickly. And so I can ask people to get those questions answered. So just knowing you’ve kind of got somebody, it’s like a friend that can help guide you a little bit more. And who knows where surrogacy will grow. There’s…

25:59
Perhaps there’s one last question. If there was any change that you would like to see for surrogacy in Australia to streamline the journey a bit more or something, is there some particular change that you would like to see? So one of my good friends is a barrister. She helped me on this journey and I believe you know you need to write. I hope it changes to more commercial surrogacy, but it just becomes easier for intended parents. It’s so interesting you mentioned this because just on the previous webinar podcast with a surrogate, we were talking about this, that she is pro a change.

26:29
to either compensated commercial surrogacy, and so am I. I think- I agree with that, because I just think, why? And that’s why we didn’t wanna do commercial surrogacy in overseas. We didn’t wanna be forced to leave our country to go down that track. That is where I hope that that’s where it changes. I really do. I think it will, in the time that I’ll be working in this industry to have more expenses covered for the surrogate without questioning them as much, and maybe a five to $10,000 payment.

26:57
for, you know, take your family on a holiday for the wear and tear on your body. 100%, 100%, well, in my case, it was more than 10 months because it was, you know, you’re not just carrying the baby, it’s the whole thing before. And for Cindy, she went through a miscarriage and many embryo transfers and put her life on the line for you guys for many years.

27:18
in some ways. You know, if it did go compensated commercial, perhaps more women would step forward and consider being sorry. Yeah, I agree 100% because it’s a big ass, it’s a big gift to give. And it would still be a gift. Yeah, it is. Just to cover the costs a little bit more. And I really hope that does change. Well good, I’m glad to get your insights on that one too. Yeah, I do. Well thank you for sharing your story with us. It’s lovely to summarize it even many years down the track. I know, I know. So it’s been many years.

27:47
Thank you for listening to this episode. To see the beautiful images mentioned, head to our YouTube channel to watch the webinar recording there. If you’re looking for more support and potentially connecting with a surrogate or intended parents, head to our website, surrogacyaustralia.org to check out the resources and to learn more about SASS. Please subscribe to this podcast if you found it valuable and share it with someone so they too can benefit from this conversation. Until next time, welcome to the village.