Episode 82 – Marian – straight mum

00:14
Welcome to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series. I’m your host Anna McKay, and my aim is to raise the level of awareness of surrogacy through these conversations. This podcast is a recording from a webinar that I host, and you can find more details about those and upcoming dates on our website at surrogacyaustralia.org The webinars are free, go for an hour, and will take you through how surrogacy works in Australia. You can ask questions, typing them in anonymously if you prefer.

00:42
and you hear from a co-host who has navigated surrogacy in Australia, either a surrogate, a gay dad or a straight mum. This episode, recorded in December 2024, features Marion. Marion is a mum through surrogacy three times. Marion and David from Adelaide became parents to a boy Hugo in September 2016 and to girl Matilda in June 2018. Those children were carried by surrogate Rachel, who lives in Queensland and was previously a stranger.

01:11
Their second daughter, Sophia, was born in March 2021 by a different surrogate who lives in Adelaide and was also initially a stranger and now friends for life. We will be chatting about the lessons learned from three journeys and from many years in the local and national communities. Marion is also an artist and you can view her work online. Some of it is surrogacy related. So Google Marion Sandberg or the website is sandberg.io.

01:37
A trigger warning that this episode contains reference to their son Hugo who passed away four days after birth. I’ll also do a language warning on this episode as I don’t want to edit out any of Marion’s humour and rhythmic punctuation which is some of the occasional swearing. This episode, ugh, what can I say? Firstly, it was the easiest episode to edit, mainly due to so few ums and ahs from Marion. She speaks with such focus but also such humour.

02:06
Marion has already told me she won’t be listening back to the episode, that she was doing it as a favour for me. So I figure I can say what I like in this introduction section. When I first joined the surrogacy community in about August 2016, Marion and Rachel were pregnant with baby Hugo. Then learning that Marion is also from Adelaide like me, I fan gelled her. I feel honoured to have played a small part in being in her life after Hugo’s passing, and love that we’ve become friends over the years.

02:34
In Marion’s own unique way, she has sort of mentored me, especially in terms of not burning out with my surrogacy work and contributions. It was such a proud moment for me to have Marion as co-host, as it was a chance to share with my mentor the webinar series that I have created for the community. I took over from her the running of the Fertility Connections Forum for many years, and at that time, I felt as though she had passed a torch onto me. I enjoy being one of the many members of the community who run with a torch for surrogacy.

03:04
and also passing it on to others in the future so we can each advocate for surrogacy in whatever capacity we have. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did hosting it and listening back to it again.

03:16
Well, let’s launch in. Marion, thank you for joining us. We’ve got a few photos to work through here to summarize some of your surrogacy journeys. We’re not gonna go into the depth of the details of each of the journeys, because I know you have recorded a podcast episode on the Australian surrogacy podcast, and so has surrogate Rachel there. She’s done a few episodes. So I really do encourage people to look them up or listen to them do their homework and hear about the journeys in a bit more detail. But what I see when I look at this photo is joy and humor and laughs.

03:44
So much joy, yeah, absolutely. Was joy and humor a significant part of your team? Oh, I think it’s how we got along so well. Like, I think when I was looking for a surrogate, I was like, oh my God, I’ll take any uterus I can get. And then I realized after a while that, you know, that does a disservice to the human at the other end of it. And also, you’re not gonna be able to stay friends with someone that you don’t get along with. And because humor is a trait that I lean into quite often as a human, I’m gonna have to find someone with a sense of humor.

04:13
So yeah, Rach and I found each other and the whole thing was hilarious. And then even when things went really horribly wrong, we were still making terrible jokes with one another. I think if I’ve got any advice for an intended parent is to really get to know what your own core personality traits are and look for someone that appreciates that. Like look for a friend because you’re not going to be able to tolerate someone through surrogacy if you’re not mates with them.

04:39
Absolutely. Sorry, this is like turn into advice session, but I’ll just master it in there. That’s what I’m hoping that you’ve done three surrogacy journeys. So reflections on that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Although, so to contrast that with my second surrogacy, she was a harder nut to crack because she wasn’t quite as overtly humorous, more of a professional type individual. But I cracked her.

05:01
And then once we, once the cracking occurred, now there’s terrible jokes all around, but it’s just like there’s different, different personalities. You get to know different friends in different ways. And so with my first surrogacy, it was just like immediately hilarious. Second one was like, oh, okay. Like we want to, we both want to do this for the same reasons. We’re just kind of like suss each other out, different sort of building of a friendship. And also I think I was more apprehensive the second time around, like, oh, do we really want to do this? This is a lot of work guys. So yeah.

05:31
different friends. I mean you don’t just have one friend.

05:34
That’s true. And so yeah, even having surrogacy journeys and different dynamics can be interesting and refreshing, I guess. Yeah. So I wouldn’t say that you need to have humor, but for me, I do. But I’m Marianne, you’re not Marianne. Some other people need humor, some people don’t. It really helped us. I want to come back to that transition from the, well, the first surrogate who, Rachel, who did two journeys to then a second one. But we’ll come back to that. We’ll just work through these photos here. And so then tell us what’s happening in this beautiful birth photo.

06:04
our second surrogacy baby in this photo. I’m like there’s a live child in there therefore it must be the second.

06:11
Because I didn’t get to hold the first one. That was pretty, am I allowed to swear? No, probably not. Yes, I can cut bits out. Would you like to- I’m gonna make extra editing work for you. For those who haven’t done their homework, would you like to briefly summarize your first- Oh yes, so Rachel, that’s the lady on the operating table having her guts cut out, she’s our surrogate. So she first birthed Hugo eight years ago. He passed away, which was really bloody rotten luck, but you know, lightning strikes us all.

06:38
And then because she’s a bit of a mad woman, she decided she wanted to do it again. Yes. And this is after having… she’s had five surrogate babies. That is a lot. She’s, yes, a world record, yeah. We’re the ones who do it more than once, I think. Yes, extra special crazy.

06:55
And she’s got three keeper kids of her own. Yeah, absolutely. And now like I’m the cool auntie, which is good. Like you were saying before in with your photos, which were beautiful, by the way, about how it’s really important that the kids are still friends with Matt and Brendan, your intended parents. Just got to say from an unintended parents point of view, having the friendship with those kids is such a gift. So I know I’ve got an extended family, but they come visit me as well. Like they want to they want to text message me now that they’re all cool teenagers and stuff, and I’m the cool auntie.

07:25
That’s cool. Yeah. And I’m not sure every friend, every team gets to that point, but I suppose that’s something to aim for and keep working on. And it’ll change as the kids, the age of the kids. Can you? Do you reckon you can? Can what? Because again, it’s different with my second surrogacy, the child of that surrogate. Not that interested in you. Personalities, like I’m not the cool Auntie Marion to that child. And that’s fine. Like that’s just a totally different dynamic. We say hi at Christmas time and it’s very pleasant.

07:51
but they wouldn’t be texting me about boyfriends and stuff like that, but the others do. So, yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So then as, you know, I’ve been part of this community. Well, I joined as you were pregnant with your son who died a few days after birth. You then as a team decided to go again and Rachel here, as you said, come. I didn’t want to. Did you know that? Did you know I didn’t want to? Maybe, it’s been a long time ago now. Everyone else wanted to, and I was like, oh God, the trauma, don’t do it to me again. Because of the fear of it would happen again, is that why? Oh no.

08:20
I think I was just, I was enjoying the moment in life where I didn’t have to answer to anybody and I could, like my anxiety was the best it had ever been because bereaved parent, you can do what you want. You can sit at home and eat chocolate all day and no one will tell you otherwise. Yes, fair enough. Yeah, but- I don’t know, it’s moving on after a breakup, you’re either ready or you’re not. Sure, so everybody else sort of forced you- Everyone else was ready and I was like, ooh. Yes, and dealing with grief in your own marriage too, you can-

08:44
handle that quite differently. Absolutely. Yep. Yes. So you went on to have your first daughter here. Yeah. So back to your original question. The guy in the middle is Rachel’s husband. So he was sitting there holding her hand during the C-section. Beautiful.

08:59
Yeah. And so these photos that the co-host share with me are the ones that are special to them. And I always really enjoy going through them because it’s sort of like, which ones did they pick? And so I think you did a little bit of media or the advertiser in Adelaide followed up with you. I’m lazy, though. So I said, Anna, go find things on the web for me. I can’t be bothered. We should just say that, should I? Well, Marion used to have a blog which I have read from beginning to end, but it is it’s it’s retired now, shall we say.

09:27
Sorry, I’ll give you a copy. Oh, it printed out as a book for me. No, I’ve already read it. There were many more photos on there I could have taken, but that is fine. So they had some, I like the way you’ve done these photos too, because I remember at the time you haven’t shown your child’s face and in these photos, but they still obviously send the message that you’re home with your daughter. Oh, we were actually in an Airbnb in this one.

09:48
Okay, what must be this photo? Interstate surrogacy. This one is at home. Gotcha. That’s at home, yes. Yes. That’s the one we did with the advertiser. I look so young there. Children age you. Why would anyone have children? And three. Why is three of them? Only two that I have to listen to complaints about though. So yeah. And so yes, here we are advocating for surrogacy and encouraging other people to do it. Are we mad? I don’t know.

10:10
I’m advocating for people to make informed choices. I’m not advocating for people to do it. I think I’ve lived probably quite the spectrum of surrogacy experiences. And in me sharing it, I’m not saying do it. I’m saying you can do it. You can do it, but it’s really good that there’s resources like you, Anna, around to be able to help people. Thank you. I will say to our listeners, you’ve got Marion here. She’s pretty open. You could ask her any question.

10:36
Feel free to click the anonymous button if you’re a bit nervous. Do you have children if you had time again? No, I would not. Say that again.

10:43
If you had your time again, would you? If I had my time again, would I have to? Well, actually, no, that’s not true. They change you as a person. Oh, bloody hell, they do. Sorry, you’re going to have to edit that one out. They do. It’s a really tough gig. It’s a tough gig. You’ve got these little humans and all of a sudden, like, you thought you had a pretty good relationship and you go to being like business associates with your significant other. I mean, some people get lucky, don’t they? But my experience is that it’s really rough gig. And I’ve got lots of support and my kids are great. I love my kids.

11:13
I love my colleagues, I hate the job. Sure. I mean, as I said in the presentation part, I’m 41 and this year my husband and I have separated. And so, our kids are eight and 10. And yeah, we’re a great parenting team, but it puts a strain on relationships. Such a strain, yeah, absolutely. But through all of those life ups and downs, I’m so grateful to have my two surrogacy families, because they’re family. There’s no other definition for it really. Yeah, well, that’s a beautiful thing to have and something to aim for.

11:42
For that reason, I would do sorry. Yes, exactly. Yeah. There’s certainly some parts of our own, anybody’s journey that we all wish we probably could remove, but then it brings us. Like the internal drive to want to have children is pretty bonkers. Like particularly as a woman that couldn’t carry, there’s this guilt that you place upon yourself, like, oh my God, my body can’t do it. What is wrong with me? I’m a bad, I’m a bad wife. I’m disappointment to my family, myself.

12:09
Like we load all of these societal expectations upon ourselves. I don’t know if guys do it, maybe, maybe not to the same degree, don’t know. But then like there’s something inside you that is like, I must have a child at any cost. And that turns us a bit mental and we just kind of get our blinkers on and we just want to do it. But now I’m on the other end of it. I’m like, man, tough business. So you’re saying you did become a bit bonkers doing this surrogacy? Can you see that now?

12:33
100% yeah I’m a little bit mental I think but I was very invested in the surrogacy community. That’s another question I want to get to. I did a lot of volunteering like I don’t do things by halves I want to just throw myself at something that I want but in general I’m not much of a social media person so yeah burnt out pretty hardcore from that. Well I want to come back to again the community element too you’ve predicted all of the questions that I wanted to ask. That’s good that means I’m on the right track. I’m just gonna finish off the last couple of photos because in your

13:03
time as a human when you’re not mother and things, you’re an artist. And so you have been working on your art in different fields and again people can look up your website and of recent times you’ve done a couple of pieces that have some relation to surrogacy. So for those that are just listening to this as a podcast, what we’re looking at here is an image of Marion cutting a cake or essentially it’s a gender reveal party or it’s an art exhibition and it’s a cake with many layers of blue pink and yellow and that represents, well hang on, would you say the rest for us then?

13:31
So as an artist, I’m really interested in how our experience of being human shifts, depending on the technical systems that we’re surrounded by. And IVF is the technology that I’m looking at in this particular piece. And I’m seeing what, what is my perception of being human when I have access to this data on these embryos that I’ve chosen to withdraw from cryo storage? So once I completed my family, I wanted to take them out of the freezer so that I could stop paying those ludicrous fees.

13:59
But also I decided that I didn’t want to donate them and I wasn’t going to donate them to medical research. I wanted to reclaim them and use them as an artwork. So what you’re seeing here is the PGS, PGD, whatever it’s called, data testing, genetic testing data represented as colors. So I had a one, two, three, four, five, six, seven embryos that I pulled from the freezer and this is showing their genetics in terms of, um,

14:23
pink for a girl, blue for boys, and the yellow one is uncoloured in that they couldn’t extract DNA data from it. So what I was looking at in this is, you know, clinics will sell testing of embryos as something that is for our safety and the safety of the pregnancy, the baby and the surrogate, and it sounds really good, but then when you have an experience like mine where you have a child that is genetically incompatible with life, you start to see testing a bit differently, like empty promises as such.

14:53
So yeah, in doing this gender reveal party, it was a performance event at a gallery. I’m interested in the problematic nature of reducing humans into binary data. Yeah, fascinating. And for those, just to fill in a bit more of the background of their son that was born at, in the later stages of pregnancy, they found out he had a muscular dystrophy, and therefore it wasn’t compatible with life, despite the fact that they had had the genetic testing done.

15:18
And yes, so the chromosome count was fine for the classics like Down syndrome. And Marion, you know, took this up with the IVF clinic in Adelaide to really question their, what are they selling with the testing marketing that gets done here? So they can’t test for everything. So this was just an unfortunate scenario that happened to their son. And therefore, yeah, it really questions what is the test. It’s a lot about language really. Like even, you know, when you go through an IVF round and they say, oh, this is a grade A embryo or whatever, it’s, it’s healthy. Like it’s not.

15:48
And also like what is healthy? And if the transfer fails, like because you had that data on it was A grade, your experience of being human shifts because you’re like, oh my body killed the A grade embryo. It’s like it didn’t. Like life is just really uncertain. And so I think we have to take this data that fertility clinics give us with a real grain of salt. Yeah, it is. Lots of food for thought there. Food and its cakes.

16:17
And then this final photo here is of the, they’re called straws, is that right? That had the embryos in them hanging on the wall? They’re called straws. They’re actually in my handbag at the moment. I de-installed them at the gallery. Ha!

16:29
Very much as a running bag. So these are the remaining embryos that were removed from cryostorosian. I’ve additioned them as prints and hung them on the wall. That’s a normal thing to do. Yes. It’s amazing how many people have gone through fertility treatment and they don’t actually know what the straws look like. Yeah. And it’s a massive part of the journey, but we don’t know all the parts. Absolutely. And the four empty hooks represent. The four that we used. So. Yes.

16:54
The first one was lost during transfer. Our first transfer didn’t stick. That embryo’s name was Pip. The second one was Hugo. The third was Matilda. And the fourth was Sophia. Excellent. So other than one failed transfer, the rest all worked. Oh, my God. I’ve got good uteruses. Don’t I? Uteri. Do we call them uteri? Yes. They’re attached to really good humans as well. Maybe there’s a correlation there. I don’t know. Probably not. Probably no correlation. So you did surrogacy journey with Rachel twice. Yeah. And then you just. So you had.

17:23
one life child as you say Matilda and then you sort of like I think we want to go again so then in some ways you had to come back to the beginning and find a new self. I was really apprehensive like I’m a slow burn kind of person I mean you know what it’s like you’ve been trying to have coffee with me for about three years and I’m like oh peopling like even if I like you it’s hard.

17:44
to get myself off the couch. So I was really just not wanting to do it really unless it fell in my lap and then it fell in my lap. It just happened. Like that doesn’t normally happen but I think it’s because I was so active in the community. Like people know who I am, they know that I’m not a dick. I mean that’s my opinion of myself, other people might not. But like to see the continuity of care that I’ve had for my surrogates and surrogate families and the respect that I’ve paid to the process and the journeys. Like it’s kind of like street cred. So if someone comes up they’re

18:14
oh Marian’s looking for a uterus cool like I didn’t really have to do anything so you put in that hard work to create a good name for yourself so maybe and also Rachel was kind of like being my wingman looking for a surrogate for me because she wanted the surrogate baby to have a sibling yes yeah but I’m so glad we did like honestly our third child is by far the easiest I’m glad we had another one to keep the others at bay. Excellent so yeah so in terms of that connecting with a new

18:43
remember about your own apprehension as you say or the the effort that you’re putting in. Oh yeah I was so apprehensive just because we’d been through the worst case scenario before and I didn’t want to put another human through that so I was like are you sure you want to do this again and she was like yeah I mean you know a personality like once once once she wants to do something she’ll do it um and that surrogate the Adelaide surrogate had already been a surrogate once before absolutely so she wanted to do it for someone who just

19:10
wasn’t or someone who was familiar with the process and um yeah wanted to do it again but didn’t want to walk someone through the whole thing yeah um like mentally emotionally like you know what you see is that if you’ve done it before like you kind of a safe bet I guess. Does this make us family because she carried my egg the first time around yeah yeah right we’re somehow connected there some weird extended family yes mates yes and so then that third journey was there anything significantly different that’s worth mentioning

19:40
about… Oh, so the birth didn’t go as planned, which we were all a bit concerned about. But look, I think because of the relationship that we had…

19:51
had, it just turned out okay in the end. Yeah. As in you navigated the changes together, okay? Yeah, yeah. The third one was a bit weird in that it didn’t really feel like surrogacy. It just felt like mates having a baby together. Like literally it cost me like zero dollars almost. Okay, but the new IPs listening to that, they’re going to… That’s not a dumb thing. .. tell me, expand that a bit more. Zero dollars. So we were…

20:18
We were able to have our legals done, let’s just say by a friend. And counseling, I think we got mates rates for having a dead baby. Sorry, this is my, this is my like, this is my humor. This is not anyway, as only Mary Anna knows me, there’s probably some horrified people watching this webinar being like, she’s making dead baby jokes. Like, dude, if that’s the only positive thing that comes out of having a dead baby, I’m all about the jokes.

20:47
So we got mates right. What else? Like, oh. Well, you didn’t have any interstate travel this time because you were Adelaide. You didn’t have interstate travel. And also this surrogate was really bloody hard to expense. Yes. Like, couldn’t buy her a pizza. Very, very stern on that. So again.

21:04
depending on the relationship with your surrogate, like some will be very happy with you buying a bag of groceries, others will not and you just have to really respect the differences between them. Like my two surrogates are very different in some ways and very similar in other ways and you just have to adapt as like any other friendship really. How are they similar? How are they similar? Both bloody excellent humans.

21:27
Different personalities. They’re just they’re really motivated by wanting to come together and do a project like having a baby. Like they’re all in. They’re both all in with their hearts and their bodies. Yeah so that made it relatively easy then that final journey. Yeah 100%. Yeah going back to the first journey when I first joined this community you guys were heavily pregnant with Hugo.

21:51
You and Rachel had been very active in the community. You were running parts of it too, in terms of the… Yeah, I mean that was interstate surrogacy as well. Like that’s how we communicated really, was in public. And you were quite public with your journey in terms of showing people the way in some… Well, your way into and then advocating for surrogacy, you had your own blog. There was a phrase that got thrown around quite a bit of gold standard. Can you talk to that? And how you feel about that?

22:17
seeing two friends like that you can’t hang out with and be like oh they’re the gold standard of friendship it excludes other people and their ways of doing having their journeys as well so in a way like it’s a bit of an ego boost to be told that you’re doing things right but also what about everyone else that wants to do it their way who’s to say that how we did it is right is right for us yeah not right for other people but I think common decency and

22:41
your homework. And then it was particularly rattling for the community for the gold standard team to then have a baby that died. Yeah I don’t know I think that if anyone’s going to do it we could do it. Well that’s true if any team could survive a baby bear. It didn’t just survive we thrived and the gift like going through all of that and not having a live baby at the end I was like oh at least I’ve got Rachel my surrogate like it was worth it for that.

23:07
Even if you don’t get a baby at the end. And I know from following along that you made the birth as joyful as possible. So as I said, they found out in the late stages of pregnancy that he wasn’t going to live. So they were prepared for that at birth and for the few days that he lived. And you like to find as much joy as possible in those days.

23:26
I’m a bit of a relentless optimist, Anna. It’s a good way to be. But I hope nobody else has to go through what we did, because that was a great time. Was Rachel relentless optimist too in that situation? Or that was harder for her? I don’t know. I think we’re kind of on the same wavelength. But it was hard for her in other ways. Like, I remember there was one appointment that she didn’t want me to fly over for. But I pride myself in, like, if I smell a whiff of being needed, I’m on a plane off to Brisbane. My record time, I think, was three hours.

23:56
no, couldn’t have been three hours, must have been four hours. It was like literally I was like uni, I was still a uni student. I can’t even remember bloody hell it was so long ago. But just like drop of a hat, go over there. And I thought as an intender parent that I was being loving and doting. But afterwards, she said like, oh, I really just didn’t want you to come. And so there’s things like that where you think you’re being useful as an intender parent, like, oh, I’m going to do your dishes. Whereas and then she’s like, don’t touch my dishes, please.

24:23
Any advice then on how to try and work out when it’s the right time to do the dishes or not? So hard, you just gotta keep talking and actually listening to your surrogate rather than thinking that you know what they want because everyone’s different like some people are going to want a lasagna and some people are just like oh not lasagna again. Yeah and I know your second surrogate there’s probably no way you would ever come and clean your house.

24:45
But again, I think I was better versed on listening to her as opposed to being like, oh, I have to do everything. I have to be everything. And also I was a parent that second time around, so I didn’t have as much capacity. My like, I’m a very sort of I’m an introvert, but I’m also very intense when I do talk to people or interact with them. So, yeah, I just needed to I didn’t have to modulate that with our second surrogacy because I was a parent. The energy was elsewhere. But yeah. Just something back on the right to journey.

25:15
and you as both of you, you and Rachel being quite active, what therefore were the good parts of being active for the community and what were the.

25:21
bad or the challenging parts that being active brought? Well, we made friends. Like we didn’t feel like we were alone when things went wrong and when things went right. Like we all celebrated together. Um, challenging bits of being part of a community. Oh, so much drama. There’s always drama. Like you put a bunch of people together that care about something and there’s always going to be differences of opinions. But I always, I got really invested in helping. Like I thought, oh, if I can’t carry a child, at least I can help others and then I’ll somehow feel like a better human or something. I don’t know. I’d like

25:51
massive guilt complex but I’ve grown a lot since then like this is 10 years ago. I’m almost 40 now. I’m an old lady. Don’t say that darling, I’m 41. I know. It’s just a number. It’s just a number. Yeah I know but I think I’ve grown a lot as a person in between then and now. Get a good counsellor. Yes ongoing counselling. Yep um it would be exhausting sometimes wouldn’t it um helping relentlessly. Yeah. Yes. How do you feel about that? Well I’ve learned from you.

26:21
I’m stressed Anna that you’re still doing this for a job, but maybe because maybe because it is a job you can like separate. Yes, and that’s true because it wasn’t it was a volunteer huge capacity for you. Whereas I’ve moved into a work capacity and I have high school teaching that I go to, so I get a chance to switch off and use my brain for maths and other things. Whereas I was full time surrogacy basically. Yes, and I watched you looking for a surrogate and then full time helping other people find surrogate and education.

26:51
What’s the laws? Are they still all weird laws, like different from state to state? Come on guys, like why haven’t they sorted this out yet? Well, that’s a lovely thing. That’s another question I have. What changes would you like to see for surrogacy in Australia? I don’t even know what the laws are these days. Surrogacy.

27:05
to that question. I think we need a unified law but I guess with that comes like some people are going to lose out or perceive to lose out and some people are going to gain. Don’t know. If there’s say about a hundred to a hundred twenty births in Australia each year for Aussie parents and I think there’s like three to four hundred each year to Aussie parents who go overseas, Yuri would you like to see more of those Aussies stay on shore here? Oh yeah.

27:28
I mean, it’s good for the kids, it’s good for the intended parents. Can you imagine flying halfway around the world? People do that because we need to. I was contemplating that. I thought, oh, gosh, at what point do you pull the pin on domestic surrogacy and go overseas? Yeah. How do we how do we have more journeys happening here in Australia? Oh, it’s just normalised it, I think. And I think that the great thing about, you know, marriage equality and just an increase in visibility of surrogacy and surrogacy babies, surrogacy stories.

27:58
Like, it’s only going to get more. You’ve got to get more support for people like us that are just wanting to be parents like anyone else. Yeah. My vision that I have is, you know, I look at IVF that’s been around for 40 years and then, you know, nobody would say anymore, oh, your baby was conceived in a test tube, you know, did you still love them? Whereas we now know somebody knows everybody now that’s done IVF. I would like to get to that point in surrogacy where the surrogacy kids are school pickup and there’s another kid in their class that’s either born through overseas surrogacy or Australian surrogacy.

28:28
this idea that you grew in somebody else’s tummy. Yeah for sure. So I suppose surrogacy’s been oh 10, 15 years in 20 years in Australia so add another 20 on let’s see where we go hey. That’d be nice. Yeah. For the kids as well. Yeah just to know. My kids just they think they’re a little bit special because they got they had a different tummy. Yep and so that’s clearly something that’s part of the language that you talk to your kids about because they know 100% and also when I get

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I’ll be like, Annie Rach grew you perfectly good legs, use them. That’s what I’m like. Yeah, I just like, I really sort of drill in the fact that someone helped you to be alive. So just use your legs, child. So you get mileage out of this surrogacy concept. Yeah, 100%. And like, you know, Matilda lost a tooth. And so I’m like, oh, you know, let’s FaceTime Annie Rach. You know, she helped you grow that tooth, probably. I don’t know how teeth work, but. Yes.

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I don’t know, just. Well, that’s interesting because that egg was in you to start with and then went to Aunty Rachel and then came back. So like you helped grow that tooth too. Yeah, true. And your mum helped you grow that because your eggs are in her and like, well, going a bit farther. It’s 8.30 and my chicken nuggets just went ding. Can I go and eat soon? Yes.

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Questions though, like there’s lots of interesting looking people here, but I don’t know who anyone is. That is okay. I’m gonna, well let me ask you these two anonymous questions here. Okay. Quickfire them. So somebody says, hello they’re new to surrogacy, thanks for this webinar. If they go to surrogacy overseas, will New South Wales state allow to bring a baby here to Australia? Oh yes, I’ll answer that one. Yes. I know there are some laws that say commercial overseas surrogacy is not legal for Aussies to do, hundreds do it every year. Nobody’s ever been prosecuted, nor will they be because it’s not in the best interest of the

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Don’t be scared, do it. If you’re thinking about that, if that’s your option, do it. Yeah, good answer. Another anonymous question, wanted to know how to find a surrogate in Australia and not sure where or which forum to approach. As I did a plug earlier in the webinar, I’ll say on my podcast series, episode 23 is a great episode. It’s how to find a surrogate from three people who already did and we unpacked that idea in much more depth. You can also find that on the YouTube channel. I’m just going to do one last quick thing, Maren, that says the word forum. Is

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forum that you created didn’t you? There used to be a forum for lots of things didn’t there? Yes. Then we killed it. And so you started that, is that right? No, no I didn’t start that. Ah, but you ran it for many years. Yeah, because Rachel got sick of it. That’s right. And when you’re an intimate parent and feeling guilty about…

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overloading someone, of course you’re going to do that. That’s what it was. Right. So you ran a forum for many years, which was separate to the Facebook groups. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was around before Facebook was a thing, but now Facebook is a really great way to connect with people. So, yeah. Well, as I said in my presentation part, I had to rejoin Facebook to find community. And I actually found that the old fertility connections forum first. And so that’s one thing I’m really passionate about. Yes, Facebook’s there. But can we create community without having to be on Facebook, too, with the in-person catch ups and our Zoom

31:27
monthly catch-ups that we do. I think, you know, giving people options is great, isn’t it? Yeah, having options, yes. Well, any last bits of parting advice you’d like to give to people or any other thoughts on your own journey? I think that that last question about how do you find a surrogate, I think that there is some, there’s a lot of focus on finding a surrogate, but there is…

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so much you can do yourself to not only make yourself as attractive as possible to a surrogate, but to really put yourself in good stead for even when you do find that surrogate. So as an intent apparent, you can think like, you’re just waiting, waiting for an offer of a surrogate, but there’s so much you can do while you’re waiting for yourself. And also just to not just increase your chances, but increase your chances of finding the right person. Cause like I had offers from,

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surrogate prior to saying yes to Rachel and it’s you have to wait for the right person or you just it won’t work. Yeah are there any then quick tips that cut spring to mind then about things to do to help you find that surrogate or to be active and help yourself? Tips. It’s a bit of a PR exercise unfortunately unless you go through SAS so yeah it depends if you’re up for it or not. If you’ve got the energy like yeah go for it. Or someone wrote me a message. Yes. So oh hello Natalie thanks for writing me a message.

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It’s hilarious. Yes, it’s lovely. Natalie, it’s been around as long as me. And so she’s here tonight to see you again. What’s Natalie up to? I want to know what Natalie’s up to now. She took a pause and I think she’s got surrogacy in the pipeline of being a surrogate. I’m so excited for you, Natalie. I hope that’s OK to say, Natalie. Oh, too bad. She’s not on the webinar. Well, see, I’d like her as co-host in the future. Fast forward a couple of years. If she’s had a surrogate baby, she’ll be here. It’s very sweet of you to say, though, Natalie, that we were an inspiration.

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because, oh, that’s so exciting. Sorry, I’m just reading the messages. It’s just so hard to us now. No, but really, like I’ve stepped away from the community, but you know, it’s just, you know, it’s nice for people to say like, well done. You did the thing.

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But yeah, Rach and I are still going strong. She came and stayed with me two weeks ago with her eldest daughter. And like, yeah, we’re just family by every definition of the word. Yep. Well, well done, Marion. You navigated three surrogacy journeys over, gosh, ten, eight years, many years. Thank you for your contribution that you have made to the community and for. Likewise, Anna. Thanks.

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Yeah, to be able to share this with you, you know, you modeled to me and I’m, I’m giving something back now too. And so hopefully everybody does something within their own capacity of paying it forward. Or not, if you don’t have the energy for it. That’s what I mean, in their own capacity. And it might just be having a conversation one day with somebody in your friends. Absolutely. Or just normalizing it with your kids. Like if that’s the extent that you’re capable of giving back, I think that needs to be embraced. I agree. I don’t know if we run ourselves into the ground with having to repay.

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this debt through gratitude that’s a slippery slope. It is and because you burn out and then that’s you know good to anybody as you and I have each had in our own times. Yeah but yeah if you just focus on your really close connections and make them as good as you can I think that’s all anyone needs to do. Well said. Thank you for sharing your time with me for this episode. If you’re finding these episodes helpful please share them with friends. If you’d like to see the images mentioned head to our YouTube channel for all of the recordings. If you’re looking for

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consider joining SASS, Surrogacy Australia’s support service, so you can be connected with a mentor and also with me to help guide you on a journey. You might think of me as your Siri for surrogacy. Until next time, welcome to the village.