Episode 96 – James – gay dad

00:14
Welcome to our podcast series with Surrogacy Australia. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and in turn for helping us spread awareness and appreciation for surrogacy. I’m your host Anna McKay and these recordings are from a regular webinar series that I run. You can find upcoming dates on our website at surrogacyaustralia.org. During the one hour webinars, I will walk you through the surrogacy process in Australia and you can type in questions for us to answer.

00:41
My co-hosts have all done surrogacy in Australia and they alternate between surrogates, gay dads and straight mums. This episode, recorded in March 2025, features James. James and his partner Caleb from Brisbane became dads to their daughter Lenny in November 2024. Their surrogate Rachel, who lives locally, was known to them as a school friend of Caleb’s sister’s partner. Their egg donor is James’s sister, so the whole family was involved in this journey.

01:10
Their first pregnancy was ectopic and needed a fallopian tube removal. And the second was a miscarriage just before eight weeks requiring medication and two DNCs. You can hear from his surrogate Rachel in the next episode number 97. Those who are regular listeners to this podcast will notice that when I segue this time into the discussion with James, who was the webinar co-host, it was a little different. So for context, the co-host discussion comes after the information part of the webinar each time.

01:40
You’ll hear James referencing that. James also mentions the BIOC program that Rachel, as an Indigenous woman, was part of for her pregnancy. It stands for Birthing in Our Community and is a multi-agency partnership program between the large inner city Marta Mothers Hospital and two local Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community-controlled health services. Like other midwifery group practice models, they were able to receive continuity of care

02:08
and you’ll hear James and Caleb speak glowingly of the program. I hope you enjoy this episode. Okay, we got through it. There you go, James. Does it-

02:17
Excellent. And your story is amazing as well. Love it. Thanks. Very, good. And it’s such good reason. I had to know anything really much about surrogacy. It’s right. We have very easy finding Rachel. When we walked into it was very straightforward for us. And for those intended parents that are watching this, this is great. Great information. Very, very good. Thank you. To me, it’s that what I wish I had known. 100%. 100%. Like it’s like kind of there’s so much information. Every state is different. We also, Rachel hadn’t had any children prior to.

02:47
So there was also a lot of clinics. There’s only one clinic in Brisbane that would see us. You had to have had a child before or pregnancy before and no other clinic would see us. So we’re kind of like, you know, a little bit in the dark with it. So it’s great information. I definitely would have done something like that if I’d known about it. yeah. Yeah, thank you. And so I think it’s for people. that quick crash course. And even if you come back and hear it again, you’ll pick up new bits of information. 100%. Like when you’re going through it, then I’m like, oh my God, like I remember going through that part and just thinking like,

03:16
how are we gonna do this? So like, even like, we just recently did like the, the legal, my partner Caleb did all the legal stuff and a lot of the lawyer fees when we’re originally looking at it was like $7,000 for us to do it through a lawyer. doing it separately, not through a lawyer and doing it.

03:32
ourselves, we saved ourselves a lot of money, but it was able to use different resources to be able to find that. that was like, you know, after you’ve done so much, spend so much money, you’ve been able to get to where we were, and then we had to pay the legal fees on top of that. That was like another thing on another another thing as well. We are aware of it, like it was just an opportunity to be able to save money on where to be able to find the information to be able to do it as well. Having other people we just like were able to use the Facebook group and say, hey, look, we’re going through this, what is out themselves. And there’s so many different

04:02
parents and different people have been through different journeys and just using the resources I guess is probably the most recommended definitely. Yeah finding community and people who have done it before you that like to pay it forward and help you out because they know what that feeling is like to be overwhelmed. Yeah I love you.

04:17
When you’re saying before about, I think it’s talking about vulnerability is probably when you’re like looking for a surrogate and like when you’re looking for trying to have that connection with someone, if you’re an intended parent out there trying to find somebody. think the most being super vulnerable and putting yourself out there and trying to like have those conversations. And I definitely think, you know, however you want to try and be able to approach it or make it like going on those check groups and making those other intended parents feel welcome or great way of being able to engage and create connection with people.

04:47
over really.

04:48
Yes, so ultimately you’ve had a surrogacy journey and so Rachel was your surrogate and as we mentioned before there was a previous connection there so I suppose take us back to the beginning and then also tell us who’s in these photos that were scaring. So yeah, how did the conversation come up with Rachel and I’m curious about like did you let your friends and family know that yes okay we’re at that point in time as a couple that we want to consider having a family and obviously surrogacy will be our path or did Rachel approach you? Yeah, what was the order? We did a social media post we just like

05:18
Facebook and just said, hey, like we’re looking at dads and we’re looking for the perfect person out there to help us complete our family. We shared all our stories and that was like on the Friday, I think is how it happened. And it got shared over the weekend and Caleb’s sister Gloria was heavily pregnant at the time and her partner Jeff.

05:42
didn’t share the story or didn’t share the post and Gloria got very upset at Jeff not sharing that information or sharing it on his story and he only has Instagram. So I was like not offended at all. So totally fine. He shared it and Jeff and Gloria and Rachel all went to high school with one another, different grades, but they all went to high school together. Rachel had seen the post through Jeff’s post. This is by the Monday. So this thing had been like still been shared and shared and by the Monday Rachel had seen it and then was messaging Jeff.

06:12
about connecting with us and what we were like and then we started connecting through that. And it was James from the other James that was on a few weeks ago. His story is very similar to ours, like your dating, like this is a cafe we went to all the time where we have first date at and not this time, but the same place. And it was one of our regular meeting places where we’d catch up once a week, once a fortnight or however, whenever we wanted to go out for breakfast and get some

06:42
each other, find out what we liked, talked about what our plan was, where we’re at with our journey and what was happening. Because of how quickly we had met Rachel, we hadn’t created embryos, we hadn’t done anything. So we had to like, we found Rachel and then we’re like, okay, well, what’s the next step? So then we’re trying to like, know, again, trying to find the resources to like, okay, so we’ve got to create eggs, we’re going to have embryos and then we’re going get eggs. What the next step was and my sister Maddie, she offered to like, we told her where we’re at with it and she offered

07:12
to able to help us and she was our egg donor. We use Caleb’s sperm.

07:17
my sister’s egg. When we did it, we got like 26 eggs, which is like at the time, we didn’t know that was a massive number. Like we were going through all of this and it was like IVF clinic was like, couldn’t believe how crazy and how good those numbers were. I think we had 17 viable ones. Fantastic number. We’ve got lots of embryos still as well. So yeah, yeah, correct. And it was just like that that whole step had happened. And then we’re going to legal, all the legal and pre-surrogacy counseling, which we’re just

07:47
talking about before, post-surrogacy counselling as well. I think that’s like highly recommend. We did a post-surrogacy but we also offered to do more with Rachel if Rachel wanted to do that. So any intended parents highly recommend just offering that to do that because it was such good service for Rachel as well. So definitely through that whole journey, learning about, you know, the counselling side of it and then get my legal stuff done.

08:10
That’s kind of like how it fell into our tent to fall pregnant. I have so many questions I want to ask.

08:18
It’s wonderful. So that first date, I imagine like, you know, it’s a friend of a friend and you’re like, you kind of know she’s interested to be your surrogate. But then, but it’s not like she’s like a hundred percent committed and offered. But until you still trying to get to know each other. Like, did it feel bizarre that two men are going on a date with a woman? It’s awkward. It’s weird. You’re like, you’re Caleb and I were like trying to like, we’re having conversations in the car about what we’re going to be like and like making sure that she’s going to like us. And we’re just like, it was just weird because you’re also sharing it with somebody. Like you’re sharing.

08:48
this like experience with your partner. And then we’re learning about Rachel and Rachel had already come out with all the information. Rachel’s like very, very organized. So she knew what she wanted to do. She had an idea of, you know, how the journey wanted to look for her. So, and Rachel had already had a plan that this is what she wanted to do. Like she wanted to have this experience. Having someone like Rachel, who was also so organized, also helped us be able to like do it so quickly. You know, it was just, um, just- It’s like, it’s almost like another part-time job with all of the project management element of Syracuse, isn’t it?

09:18
Yeah, 100%. Absolutely. You’re also meeting regularly during, I try hard to catch up every week or every two weeks just to like, just because it was going to be such an intimate moment and we’ve gone through so much and I guess probably every fortnight is probably what we’re really trying to.

09:32
But um, you know Rachel was coming to our family events and making sure that she got to same thing to know who Rachel is and you know, and it’s very important that it was very important for us so that our family knows What was happening because my family your parents are like telling you one thing. They’re like this person’s crazy They’re gonna run away with your child and like that they’re gonna go do this and you know How do you know that that’s what they want to do? then once they get to meet her and that’s what happened for the dads I carried for as well the more

10:02
people got to meet me, their friends and family, and I’ll be like, oh my god no, no more children, no thank you. You just hear it from the surrogate and then that puts people’s minds at ease. So I think it’s also really valuable for people listening to be able to hear that you’re introducing Rachel to your friends and family. It’s not just this project that’s isolated that you’re just doing with this woman who’s a vessel for you. becomes

10:23
of the modern family. Yeah and it’s not just like exactly and it’s not just like it’s going to be over like you know Rachel’s going to be coming to birthday parties, coming to Christmas, coming to whatever like there’s going to be times where Rachel is going to be at the same events and she’s helped she’s a part of our journey and our life of how Lenny was born so we’ll keep moving through the photos and so then there was some photo here of just going out for a meal together like Asian food I think that’s what Lenny’s basically half made of is yum.

10:51
Korean food. we were just, I don’t know, were again, it was just like making sure that Rachel was comfortable. We’d go out for dinner or we’ll try and do things so that she had food in her belly to grow a baby, you know, so. But it’s also, it’s not just about that, is it? It’s just spending time as friends, continuing to get to know each other too, isn’t it? Rachel was going through like her final year of uni. We’re also like learning about what birth was going to be like post.

11:19
learning about different things of our relationship. guess like after several, because we also had the ectopic as well and we had miscarriage. So there was also like different times where we had to really be there for each other as well. So yeah. I mean, there’s some pretty big things there that you’re talking about there that some surrogates might stop after and those hurdles of miscarriages and pregnancies that don’t work, but surrogates are also very determined women, aren’t they? And they keep going. Absolutely. Just give us an age range approximately. So Rachel’s late 20s, is that right?

11:49
She is 30 this year. I am 35 this year and Caleb is 36 this year. Yeah, so this just helps to give people an insight there. And so yes, just confirming for people, I’m just going to say it again, that Rachel is a single person and she also has not had children of her own. And as I explained in the surrogate webinar when I host those, that means the surrogate can only carry for IPs who live in New South Wales, Queensland and South Australia. So just a bit of a fact there. It actually doesn’t matter where the surrogate lives. It matters where the IPs

12:19
So it’s actually convenient that you guys lived where you lived. He’s just put down Lenny as well, so he’s going to lock in as well. Lovely. Have you both here and if you need to go off and have dad moments.

12:30
So yeah, so that worked out well, but isn’t that interesting that even though Queensland is allowed to have a surrogate who’s not birthed before, many clinics still have this fear that the surrogate is going to want to keep the baby and they don’t want the media and the lawsuit or something that’s going to come from that. But I think was it life fertility with Glenn Sterling that you ended up with instead? Yes. He’s a cowboy. was messaging Rachel about that. My third egg donation for the Queensland team was up there with Glenn.

12:58
Glenn’s still has that embryo over there so… Glenn’s amazing. Glenn’s great. look, Glenn was… we got to know Glenn in…

13:10
If you are going and you’ve had so many miscarriages and you’ve been through like a very probable pregnancy or journey so far, that’s probably not the best place to end up at that point, you know? He’s very good at what he does. Like he is very good. He probably just lacks bedside man. He’s a cowboy. The things that he’s like, yeah, the stories we could tell. Honestly, he’s absolutely hilarious that I connected with him.

13:37
The main thing, because the reason why I’m telling you like how we know, because we were reading the comments before we went in there, we’re reading like this, like these people’s reviews on you on Google review. I’m like, oh my God, what the fuck are we getting ourselves into? I was like, this is like, and my sister’s going there for egg collection. I was like.

13:53
And like, know, anyway, in saying that, the support there, Rachel, she’s like the head nurse. Oh, like she looks after the surrogacy groups. Amazing. She is like, she was phenomenal. Like she connected. She just called us the other day out of the blue to make sure that we’re okay. You know, just really, really good. It’s the team of people at life, not just Glenn. 100%. No, but Glenn is good. Like, and if you’re stuck with Glenn, so be it, but. Yeah, he’s just very like, we’re gonna do this, let’s do this, let’s do this. So if you’re looking for that.

14:22
compassionate. As a female, like if you’re a hetero couple and you’ve had that long journey, yeah, perhaps not the right person for you. So we’re moving through these photos. And for those that can’t see the photos, we’ve got Rachel and her pregnant belly and you boys sharing your belly. Exactly. That was probably the same meal from before, but eating a whole lot of Korean foods and I would have been the Japanese barbecue and rolling out of that. Yes. And I think that’s a great sign that teams need to have humor on this journey. Don’t you?

14:51
So then Rachel taking photos of a heavily pregnant belly and sharing it with you guys and people along the way I guess. Yeah like we had a three-way group where we still talk every single day I would say or if not we’re photos and we’re talking about just things in our life that not necessarily not necessarily linear but just different things that are still happening and how we would connect to make sure that anything any communications were together so definitely a three-way group or group chat is definitely the best so that you can like you know check in.

15:21
and everyone else has been able to help and make sure it’s okay. Because it’s partly about all the logistics of the appointments and the baby updates and her body updates and then also just still the normal life friends, how you’re going with your work and your health and all of that. And so did you know the gender that you were going to have or it was a surprise? Rachel did like a reveal for us as well. It was kind of like a like a little treasure hunt situation. Yes, it was pretty cool though. It was fun. It was like, I think we’ve got a photo of that too.

15:51
Yeah, we just like we did just like a went to like wrap a baby and we had to like go around the house and be able to like look tasks on like a treasure hunt. Yes, sorry gets often get quite excited about the how they offer or gender reviews and those sorts of things. So and then that brings us to the day of birth. So

16:09
Talk us through briefly, was it an induction or was it just unplanned? And then what’s it like being in the room as another woman gives, a woman gives birth, hey? It was good. was like, honestly, the- It didn’t start off good. Rachel had a gallstone. So she was in the hospital first to that. It was like two o’clock in the morning and she was in the emergency room and on the- on the Thursday. Thursday. And we had planned to have a induction over the week.

16:38
weekend because we’re at 38 weeks and that’s what Rachel wanted to do was to have an induction. No it was on Monday, was supposed be on Monday.

16:45
over the weekend, they brought it forward because of Rachel having the gall stones that was pretty much from like the Thursday early morning, we were in the hospital. Funny because I had my phone, I’ve been sleeping with my phone on loud for like, I don’t know, I’ve always had my phone on loud and I had that one night, one night I had turned my phone on silent and Caleb as well like has, well his phone was on silent so.

17:11
I have heard this story so many times from IPs that I never do that but for some weird reason that one day I remember it even like I remember my

17:21
I remember going to bed and putting my phone on silent and not even thinking about it like and it wasn’t like I just and then because I’ve been waking up through the night all the time because I was so excited I was so paranoid about missing something and and then I had a phone call from Rachel’s sister It was only I missed Rachel’s phone call about 20 minutes prior to and I’ve woken up and I looked at my phone I was like, holy shit something’s happening Rachel’s in hospital. She had jet-course implants. So we then went in and then they

17:48
forward the induction day that was on the Saturdays like when we started the induction. the balloon in. Then induction started on Sunday morning.

17:57
But Rachel’s mom, who’s in that photo there, Rachel’s mom is also a GP. And the other photo before she’s there, she’s Rachel’s sister in the maroon there. She’s also a midwife at Mata. She just moved to Logan, but she’s at the Mata. Rachel is indigenous. So we had the biop nurse. we had a student biop nurse. she’s a student nurse. And we had an incredible team. this, like Rachel had contractions over the night and then we went

18:27
down at like 6am on Sunday morning and it was it was awesome like just the it was a great vibe we had Rachel’s mum come in probably about 11 o’clock she drove from Bundaberg down Rachel’s sister was working with Alona who is the she works at BiOF who is like also amazing she’s like just an amazing lady there’s any indigenous people out there get into the BiOF program because that is like the continuity of care there is fantastic they just

18:55
were very, very good. And then we were the first two dads to RBC through Queensland through Biol.

19:02
I can’t tell you enough how much they support it. And they support women. There’s just so much like educational stuff that’s happening in them. So very good. then you became dads, hey? Yeah. Pretty, pretty special moments seeing each of you, seeing like the man that you love being a dad. That’s pretty special, Yeah. I think we were just like, I don’t know. It’s hard to explain. Like it kind of almost, it doesn’t feel real. It feels like, like it feels quite surreal. Oh, absolutely. Like, cause you know, you go through all this whole experience of like,

19:31
having this conversation that we’re gonna be dads and you’re just like, you’re just living your normal life and we aren’t going through any sort of like body changes and no other, we’re not doing anything different within our life. Bang, of a sudden now you’ve got this little person to care for. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the surrogate. And so then there’s some beautiful photos here you shared with us from birth. was there a particular birth photographer or just somebody was on hand taking some photos? No, we just had our phones. I had like a DSLR camera, but I only took

20:01
three photos and then I just forgot about it. just was two in the moment. that’s fine. And so for Rachel now she’s coming on the webinar for people who listening she’s coming on on the next one so it would be fantastic to hear her story in these podcast episodes I’ll do back to back. So yeah so then I guess I can talk to her more about what that birth experience was like not having birthed their own children before but how do you feel like looking at that photo there of the three adults there and your daughter Lenny and you know a woman holding your child that she’s birthed is there any feelings of like

20:31
Oh, she shouldn’t be holding the child or is it just a big world of love? No, it’s like, because we wouldn’t have Lenny without Rachel. So it was just, I don’t know. That’s not really what sort of goes through my head as well. I wonder if it is, see, I asked that question because I’m trying to imagine what people at the very beginning might say to fear. 100 % like.

20:50
If you probably definitely probably like I would have been like a very weird thing. But like at the time like we were like it was amazing like watching Rachel the whole energy in the room going through what Rachel had been through and our journey where we’ve gotten to and we’re at this point and having Rachel’s mom and sister there and

21:09
It was just like, it was a relief that Lenny was here. Do you know mean? It was a relief that Rachel had like fulfilled her what she had wanted to do. Like Rachel, it was like, it amazing. She was able to like do what she wanted to achieve. And we were, we were starting out joining as dads, you know? And, and it was just, I love it. It was amazing. Like the birthing experience was one of, yeah, it was amazing.

21:34
recommend it to everyone. And then yes and then just some last photos to finish up there as we’re in hospital together for a little bit and then eventually you guys go home and and off to be dads. literally yeah it’s just like that um you get home and you’re like what the hell do we do now? Absolutely there’s some beautiful photos so thank you for sharing those with us. So tell us lads a little bit more about the fact that Rachel was single and what so that meant that she didn’t have a

22:04
to rely on to help her sort of pick up the pieces sometimes if she was struggling to cook or just feeling tired and those sorts of things. What type of supports?

22:13
did you have to to offer or could offer that might have helped her because she was single? Like a lot of the things that you had said before, like in the introductory, like about doing massages, physio, when Rachel came out of hospital, I made sure there was like plenty of like food in the fridge or like, you know, things that to be able to make it easier. The debit card is a great idea. That was like one of the best, one of our counselors also recommended that. That is just like, the debit card is such a smart thing to help someone if they want to go buy a bra or if they want to go do

22:43
go shopping or go buy something that they want to be able to do. It was fine. So, and trying to make sure that Rachel would just use it, you know, like that was like, I just like not have to ask. It’s like go buy and not worry. Yeah. I think you hit on a good point. I was watching from my phone earlier, but I think you hit on a good point too, where you said that like a lot of surrogates don’t ask a lot of things too. And they just, and that was, that was right. Like Rachel didn’t ask. And because surrogates, we’re so aware like

23:10
how much this costs IP. So Baker cost my IP $60,000 because 30,000 was two rounds of egg collection for IVF and three embryo transfers and then the counseling, the lawyers. And so I had like secondhand maternity clothes because I wear secondhand, but like, so I didn’t have many costs or loss of wages, but that’s just still cost them 60,000. So surrogates are aware that, you if we’ve had our own kids conceived naturally, that was free. And so we’re so aware of the costs. And so it’s that fine balance of IPs asking and offering ad nauseam

23:40
but also not wanting to overstep the mark and her being brave to ask if she needs, but yes, as you say, she’s got the debit card and she knows that she can just tap that when she needs things, but great work with the mules in the fridge and the freezer. That’s some really practical bits of advice there. James organized like some care packet. Like he would always just think to like, let’s get a box and just get a whole bunch of food and just like treats and like data rate and stuff. pretty sure she had like box. Because Rachel was like, had very bad mox. She had very bad, well like the doctor believes that she had.

24:10
allergic reaction to HDG. So she was like consistently sick all the way through just nausea and vomiting all the time. That was something that was weird. I would just want to make sure that she had something to snack on or something there. So if she wasn’t feeling up to cooking, could snack on something. So yeah, I don’t know. Like I feel like that was just things little like just just trying to always think about Rachel, you know, in that panel. So that’s lovely. Great team there. Good work, IPs. One question. I’ve got perhaps a couple more. So Rachel, your surrogate asks in chat in the

24:40
What was the hardest part of the journey for you two, perhaps as a couple? Now, actually, I wonder if this segues into something we talked about in messages today that…

24:48
Or you might have two things to say that usually when a hetero couple decide to have a child, it’s often done in the privacy of their own home. But then suddenly in surrogacy, there’s doctors, counselors, lawyers involved. And then again, once you then become parents, there’s a surrogate to still look after. And so sometimes that intimacy is lost of what you would traditionally just do as a couple. You’ve got so many other people involved in this potentially intimate journey that you go on to become parents. Was that a challenging thing for you both? I definitely find that

25:16
having that because everyone said, you know, like when we were going through the whole process of becoming parents or not becoming parents, doing the intention of becoming dads and sharing it on Facebook. And then, you know, then the next step was then to like,

25:31
go through the IVF process, starting with my sister, do the egg collection, and then everyone’s asking, how’s it going? then we’d had the topic pregnancy, and then we’d had the miscarriage. again, was like, because everyone knew that we’re starting and stopping and starting and stopping and going through it. So everyone would want to know where we were at with it. But we also needed our own little support system as well. So I think that’s why we kind of…

25:57
Let family know too, but I think anyone that’s done IVF and it has to like like the people surrounding you know every step of where you’re at with it like it’s not just a We’re like six months pregnant like no one can really keep that in you

26:10
like every little every little wins like a really big one you know but yeah there was um and then going through like at the end of it it was like again when yeah when when lenny was born it was the same sort of thing so just trying to like wasn’t to work at home with her door shut together or in the car like when we that last photo at the hospital doors that was also probably a very hard moment because like you know we’re now like

26:33
going away from each other, you know, like we would, we just spend like all the time in the hospital together. We spent a whole lot of time leading up to it. And now we would be like going to our home. We were also discovering who we are as parents, discovering how to raise Lenny and you know, navigating that. And that was challenging. That was like super hard, like leaving Rachel with her sister going and knowing that she didn’t have like

26:56
partner or children or anything to go to. That was like, found that very hard probably in a way. Like I found that very like challenging to get my head around it as well. I’m assuming you guys still saw each other regularly in those first weeks and months. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like I think it was like the next day or the day after we had seen each other and then Rachel was like regularly coming over.

27:17
expressing and helping us, know, with helping with Lenny. yeah, it was definitely, that whole, like, again, this was just like just different lead ups to it, you know, where that was. Lots of little learning things and adjusting to your surrogacy team now, that part of the project is done and now you adjust to, the baby’s with you and what does your friendship look like? And as, and as I know, and you said she was pumping milk. So all of those factors. What do you think then was the hardest thing for Rachel in this whole journey? Oh, good question. Losing organs.

27:44
Losing organs? Yeah. She’ll probably want to talk about it a lot on her one too, but I think she just like the just the emotions that sort of came with the after giving birth and us like sort of parting ways and having not what not parting ways but you know but not physically being within the same space as each other I think that was probably um don’t know quite intense for Rachel and she also she also went through I don’t know if I’m saying it right like derm dims but she didn’t know what it was at the time it was when she was expressing milk it was causing

28:15
about reaction and yeah. an issue with pumping milk there. And we talk about in the surrogacy world, head, heart hormones, this idea that your head and your heart know where baby are, but your hormones don’t. And so it’s that she didn’t have any of her own kids to cuddle and to help her body.

28:33
adjust to not having a baby. So her body was probably grieving, even though her head and her heart are happy that Lenny’s with you and she did what she wanted to do. So there’s this level of confusion in your body for those few months post-birth, I think. like navigating that.

28:46
as a couple as well as knowing Rachel’s… Rachel’s family was also in Bundaberg as well so it’s like making sure that Rachel has support and making sure that we’re all together or helping each other in any way. I guess it’s hard too because we don’t have the hormones, we don’t really know what it is that’s really going on and as surrogate says, they put up such a strong front and I think Rachel did that a lot too. think it was probably hard for her. I mean this is me totally like…

29:16
going off but I think she probably suffered a lot more than she let us know about you know? For sure and I don’t think that… think Rachel might have had an idea as well but I don’t think probably to the extent of like how intense it was. Like it was… it is so intense. like first three, six weeks we were also running on…

29:35
We also had all of our friends and family coming over and making sure everyone wants to be a part of everything. was definitely post-surrogacy counseling. Something was great. That was for us as well. We were rolling our eyes at the start of another session, but then we were like, okay, I should probably go. Yeah, 100%. When we were originally doing it, was another session. We just felt like it was another half grab to do something. Honestly, it was one of

30:05
best things. That and then at Lotus, psychology in Brisbane, Narelle, it was fantastic. She helped Rachel just with some of the post stuff as well. that was, yeah, was good. They’re worth their weight in gold. Those psychologists who specialize in surrogacy now understand the complexities of having a baby with many people. yeah, and it’s those first few weeks and months post-birth to navigate. And that’s fantastic to hear, you know, support for post-surrogacy counseling for the now parents as well. And that’s

30:35
like part of our SaaS package that’s counseling’s prepaid for anybody in the team, but that’s really handy for the surrogate to then tap in and go, I’m going to use some of those sessions. She doesn’t even have to tell the IPs or ask them for the money because they’ve already prepaid for it. That exactly that same emotion of paying and doing it. You know, just like go and I think, I think I might’ve just pre booked in like just go do it, like just go have a conversation.

30:57
make sure that Rachel is okay, you know. They have and then it’s like, oh well, you’ve booked it so I better do it because I’ll let you down. So it’s a dating complex wild ride, isn’t it? This sorry. 100%. So is there anything else that you’d like to add? Any advice for people listening at the beginning or any last things from your journey that you’d like to make sure we mentioned?

31:18
nothing just like vulnerability is probably the biggest thing and that would probably be my like being vulnerable and just putting yourself out there if you’re looking for a surrogate or if you’re a surrogate looking for tender parents just put yourself out there and just and have those conversations and um yeah it just it literally just started from a facebook post uh and that’s how we kind of met rach and then it’s then turned into this like beautiful amazing journey of friendships you know it’s just um yeah it’s very very amazing

31:48
Thank you for listening to this episode. To see the beautiful images mentioned, head to our YouTube channel to watch the webinar recording. If you’re looking for more support and potentially connecting with a surrogate or intended parents, head to our website, surrogacyaustralia.org, to check out the resources and to learn more about SASS. Please subscribe to this podcast if you found it valuable and share it with someone so they too can benefit from this conversation. Until next time, welcome to the village.