Episode 97 – Rachel – surrogate

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you

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Welcome to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series. I’m your host Anna McKie. Thank you for sharing your time to listen to this episode. These recordings are from the regular one-hour free webinars that I run, which I invite you to attend if you haven’t already. They take you through how surrogacy works in Australia, including how to find a surrogate or intended parents. There are opportunities to ask questions and you hear from a co-host each time about their own journey.

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This episode, recorded in April 2025, features Rachel. Rachel birthed as a surrogate in Brisbane in November 2024. They had a little girl, Lenny, for dads Caleb and James, and she knew Caleb’s brother-in-law from school. Their first pregnancy was ectopic and needed a fallopian tube removal, and the second was a miscarriage just before eight weeks, requiring medication and two DNCs.

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Rachel expressed milk for seven weeks before going back to work and uni two months post-birth. Rachel’s story is also unique as she has not had children of her own before surrogacy and is also single. You can hear from one of the dads she carried for, James, in the previous episode, number 96. I hope this episode can be a resource for childless surrogates and their teams in the future. Hearing from another surrogate who does not have her own children can help to normalise the experience

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but also to prepare for the challenges post-birth. I have had another surrogate on as co-host who does not have her own children as well, and funnily enough, her name is also Rachel. You can listen to Rachel’s story in episode 48. I hope you enjoy this episode.

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Thank you for joining us, Rachel. We’ve got some beautiful photos of your surrogacy journey to work through. So tell us what’s happening in each of these photos. So this is our very first surrogate date. The very first time that we actually met, we had breakfast. You can see in Caleb’s hand a printout of birth plan, surrogacy plan, everything that I brought along. The boys probably think that I’m a bit too much of a hard hat on organization. So that was the first time we ever met. Wonderful. And so that would be exciting.

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like dating two men. tell you what, these are better than any other men that I’ve ever dated. And you had a baby with them too! I had a baby with them!

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And that’s just a great example of modern families, isn’t it? Yeah, big time, big time. That’s probably a great opportunity to do a plug. So we had James and Caleb to some level on in the webinar very recently. And so their episode has been converted to a podcast. I believe it’s number 96. So if people want to hear a little bit more of the background story and other stages along the journey, love you to listen to that episode. But just take us back to the beginning, I guess.

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Why did you want to be a surrogate and how did you go about offering to them? Since I was about 14, I knew that I didn’t want children. Well, I thought I knew. I decided that I still wanted to experience pregnancy and birth. So when I got a bit older, I thought about it properly. I actually asked a few of my friends if they needed a surrogate and they didn’t. And then when Caleb’s brother-in-law put it up on his Instagram story, I immediately contacted him. I was like, hey, I’m looking to do this.

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what are these guys like? From there, sort of just found this. Yes. And so it came to you in some ways. You sort of asked any friends if they needed you, but they didn’t. But then sort of through this sort of friend to friend connection, the opportunity was there and you’re like, it’s going to be me. And so that worked for everybody. ultimately you’ve had a baby, but obviously there’s a long journey to get to baby Lenny, right? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So then you start the dating, as you say, the sorrow dating and spending time getting to know each other, building the friendship,

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then also talking about all the surrogacy stuff that you need to talk about. The next photo is a big jump to pregnancy, so let’s fill in some gaps here, shall we? So you did the counselling and legals, is there anything from that part of the journey that springs to mind that you’d like to comment on, or it’s moving into the pregnancies is where all the big stuff to talk about is? Counselling was really good because we’d had…

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that sort of conversation before it even started. Like we talked about different aspects of it. So it was so easy to just go into Narelle and just chat about that. I spoke to Sarah. So surrogates actually get a free 30 minute consult with Sarah Jefford, who’s the lawyer for surrogacy in Australia. One of them. Yeah. So there’s a 30 minute like online consult with her that I had. She sort of just gave me the rundown on what everything was. Yeah. So from there, we went to the IVF

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clinic before anything else and they sort of met us all. So James is James the one at the back in the middle. His sister is actually the egg donor for our journey. So Maddie, us four all went into this IVF clinic and had a chat about everything that was going to sort of happen. Yeah. So we went into life fertility and chatted to Glenn and his team and Rachel, one of the surrogacy nurses in there. So that was sort of eye opening. She sort of gave us the next steps as well. yeah. And so then when it came time for pregnancy attempts,

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I’m guessing did it work? Well, it began to work each of the three times. so that

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be exciting for you all but then many hurdles along the way. Talk us through a bit of that. Yeah so our first transfer was in June 2023. So we met in November 2022. Our first transfer was in June 2023. Comes our six week scan, found out that there was nothing in my uterus so found out that it was ectopic. Then I got rushed to hospital to have my fallopian tube removed and then we went through all of the medicated cycles again and fell pregnant again on 24th.

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of August we had another transfer. We got to our eight-week scan and found out that sorry, bub.

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was no longer. They gave me medication. The medication didn’t work for this miscarriage. So then I went in for a DNC. I disappeared to Europe and UK for a month and then came back and found out I was still pregnant. So a second DNC. So that was November in 2023. And then, yeah, we tried again for Lenny in February, 2024 and successfully fell pregnant. So it was two years from when you first met to when you birth. So that’s sort of an average snapshot. But talk us through that.

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like those miscarriages and the procedures that you needed to go through, that would be enough for some women to go, do you know what, I’m done, like this is too much for my body. But surrogates are often determined women, aren’t they? So they want to keep going. But you know, as a surrogate to sign up and not have had your own children too, how was that physically and emotionally for you? Yeah, I think at the start we were quite naive. When I found out that it was ectopic and I needed my first surgery, I was very, very upset because it’s my first time ever under general anesthetic. And

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I ended up having three lots in under five months. So ticking the bingo card as the mother pregnancy assessment center ladies said. Yeah, so the emotions were high, but I think because we just had such a good friendship by that point and we all had very good support networks, including the boys’ families and my family and whatnot, it made it a lot easier. The miscarriage was a bit like, I’m not going to say more scary. We were sort of just all waiting for something to happen and then it did happen.

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but it still sort of caught us off guard. The emotion of it was intense in the moment but I think because of all of these support, I was like, I want to go again and the boys were like, oh only if you’re ready. So they were really supportive in that way. They completely left it up to me which I was really grateful for. Yeah, that’s great. It sounds like you’ve got a good team there with the support. Credit to you all for navigating that. And so then as you say, you went again and it worked. And then I guess that holding your breath to get

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to those things that eight week mark again and waiting to see is it going to work yet. Did you find you could eventually relax into the pregnancy or it you felt a bit uncertain? Yeah so this scan seeing little Lenny with her hands behind her head relaxed. That was probably the first time that I sort of felt like I just exhaled.

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I think the boys sort of felt that too. was around that same time as well that we found out the gender of her and the biological sex of her. The photo on the right is actually, we went camping and I had a bit of a fluid and blood leak which got up the boys out of bed in shock and we all went to the hospital together. I wanted to include that photo because it’s all about the boys being there for me and I think like without them being so close to me emotionally, physically,

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locally, you know, it would have been so much harder. Even supports that they provided, like every time that they go to the grocery shops or something, or every time they thought of me, they’d just like buy random snacks for me. I’m very thankful I didn’t have gestational diabetes because I was living off sugar and pickles for a very long time and so many chips. I brought in this photo included really because the boys were there through absolutely everything. You know, I think there was one appointment that they didn’t attend because I was like, you don’t need

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to come. Don’t worry about it, you know. And same, that’s exactly what my team did because part of my motto was let’s experience the full inconvenience of pregnancy as a team. So if I’m there with my body and your baby, you’re there too. Yeah. And I know interstate teams can’t always manage that, but I think there is something a little bit extra special if you can do that journey together because then not only do they get to be present and get all the information about their growing baby and they can ask questions, but as friends, you’re also spending time together.

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just as friends as well so it’s lovely to see them by your side there. Like between appointments every week we would try and catch up like around work, my uni, all that sort of stuff like every single week we had something whether it was like a dinner or an appointment or something like that so it really did build that friendship and family-like relationship. Wonderful okay and so then you to the later stages of pregnancy and you’ve got some silly funny things going on here. Yeah so these were from the baby shower and I actually

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We found out Lenny’s name that-

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day they wrote me a beautiful letter and Caleb’s a graphic designer and did all of this really cool stuff and stamped it with like a full wax seal and everything. It’s a really special moment as well for me to see all of their family and friends come together too. So that’s Maddie with her tummy against mine. She actually had a baby 10 weeks after Lenny was born. So we were pregnant together. So yeah, so that was good fun too. It was a big come together and like their families made speeches and it was just so wholesome I think.

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And I think for people at the beginning of their journey

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to see that, oh wow, yes, of course we’re all at the baby shower and that’s celebrated together. Sometimes people at the beginning, it’s hard to imagine how close you come. Yeah, it’s a lovely celebration. And then we push on and we’ve got some photos of the day of birth. So what would you like to tell us about that special day? So as you can see, there were a lot of hands on deck. The boys were so hands on throughout it all. Caleb cut the cord and James caught Lenny. But my mum was also there for the last part of it. My little sister, who’s also a midwife, as you can see in the

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other photo. She sort of worked alongside our actual midwife throughout the entirety of it. So she was like the best help ever. But we also on top of that regular BIOC midwife, we also had a student midwife. It was a packed room, but I wouldn’t have it any other way. Me too. I had lots of mine. I think that’s how I like the birth with a party. Yeah. So as a woman who’s not birthed before, how did you feel about that? You didn’t have something to draw on, but yeah, how did you go in the, in the birth and then

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this handing over at the baby? sort of just persisted. It was a world of unknowns. I was hooked up to a Pitocin drip. We had an induction balloon put in the night before and then popped my waters in the morning and then I got an epidural at eight centimeters and as soon as it kicked in it was about two minutes until pushing.

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It was a surreal experience and I was sitting in the shower for a lot of it and the boys were hosing my back with really hot water and it was just, don’t know, like the love and support was just palpable I think and everyone commented on that as well so yeah just it was such an interesting experience and I came away from it going I don’t want to have a baby with a straight man now.

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I was going to ask, has it made you want to have your own keeper children or do surrogacy again? I now have experienced a maternal instinct, I think for the first time in my life with Lenny and I am looking to perhaps have a baby in the coming years, but no rush for me, but probably not surrogacy again, unless I have my own baby. Yes, we’re going to talk about that because you and I have. So Rachel and I connected over Instagram, I’m pretty sure.

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I followed her journey and we chatted and kept in touch. so yes, riding that wave of those first three months post-birth, particularly without your own baby to cuddle can be tricky. So we’ve got some beautiful photos here of you holding Lenny and the boys meeting her. How do you feel when you look at these photos? Oh, I just, I just remember how slimy she was.

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To be honest, I was still trying to get my placenta out. had a small hemorrhage just having Lenny there and just being able to see the like the pride on the boys faces and everything like that and I was just looking forward to handing that baby back to them. That’s expressed colostrum in the little syringe that I have in my hand there. Like seeing them feed her for the first time and everything. It just makes me so proud that like of myself but also of them. Yeah, that’s beautiful and you should be proud of yourself. You’ve created life. You’ve given the gift of life here and this beautiful photo of you all

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that says that, your friendship created life, well done. And then I know that you then expressed milk for quite some time, so we’ve got a photo of the milk in a minute here, but there’s a photo here, is this of your midwife now? You’re in the BIOC program, so can you just tell people what that stands for if they’re not familiar? Yeah, so BIOC is birthing in our community and it’s for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, whether the baby is Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander or the birth mother is. We had Auntie Jenny, who’s actually listening

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in tonight. Aunty Jenny helping us out with that. She’s our family support officer so she sort of followed our journey and is still supporting up to two or three years after baby is born. So they would come over and do home visits and things. We had a midwifery group program that we were a part of, MGP. So they were the main midwives that we would contact. So we knew every midwife in their sort of crew and we didn’t actually end up with our set midwife at the end because she came a bit quickly. We knew them luckily so

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Yeah, it was really lovely. And I still visit Aunty Jenny and Aunty Jenny still comes out to houses and stuff like that. yeah, good. It’s a special program to be a part of and such a joy, I’d imagine, too, for the Aunty Jenny and people part of that program that they get to be part of these families. Yeah. The boys are actually the first gay parents to be a part of the Bi-Oak program. So that made it even extra special. Going to the clinic and they’re like, you’re famous. Trailblazers.

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great network. I’m Indigenous myself so having that mob connection was really great and they sort of run through the Marta through the South Brisbane. I’m not sure what hospital they run through but they also have a clinic up north in like Caboolture-ish area. Great and then life starts to go on and so catch-ups continue with your friends and with Lenny and having cuddles so we’ve got some photos here of her little and you reading to her and things. Yeah so we spent the first few days in hospital together so the boys had a room next to mine and

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then when they needed sleep, I’d take Lenny and I’d try to help out where I can. And I still had my space if I needed it and everything like that. And they could still be parents, which is really lovely. And then we all went home and I visited very often, probably too often for all of us. Just seeing her grow and develop and like becoming aware of different things around her. She’s five months as of tomorrow. So it’s gone so quickly. yeah, still get to see her.

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At the moment it’s about every fortnight. yeah. Wonderful. And as you say, more frequent in those early days post-birth. You also pump milk for quite some time, but yeah, tell us a bit of a journey of those first three months post-birth in terms of the milk journey. And also in the surrogacy community, we often talk about head heart hormones and your head and your heart know.

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where baby is and it’s cared for and you did exactly what you wanted to do but your hormones don’t get the memo because they’re searching for the baby that it birthed. Did you find some of those wobbles that you had post birth or what can you tell us about that time? Oh absolutely. We went home on day two I believe and come day three when all of that milk hit I was beside myself and I don’t consider myself an emotional person so to have those really big emotions from my hormones so quick

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was like, oh my goodness, what is happening? On top of that pumping milk, I actually was talking to Narelle, the surrogacy psychologist that I was seeing, and she diagnosed me with DMER, which is dysphoric milk ejection reflex. So every single time my milk would drop down, I would have an existential dread. And so on top of all of those hormonal changes and everything like that, I was a man. The only sort of way to help DMER, you can sort of reduce it by eating really dark chocolate

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But apart from that, I really needed to sort of seek out baby cuddles. And so I was like, can I come over? Like every second day, it was intense for all of us, I think. I needed that baby cuddle, baby cuddle, because I don’t have any of my own. But I was also trying to be aware of the dads need their space, their new parents, they’re exhausted.

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they don’t need to be entertaining anybody. So sort of navigating that was a bit tricky. They did sign up for surrogacy and they know that it’s about supporting you their surrogate and they care for you deeply but as you say they are adjusting to be parents so it is a fine balance to strike but I’m pretty sure they would have still been happy to support you because you wouldn’t be going through these experiences had it not been for birthing their child.

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Yeah, yeah. Oh, they were so appreciative and they listened to me with all of my concerns. And I think that the biggest thing to take away from that was keeping that communication up and being honest. I think at the, at the, I was paddling really hard underneath the surface, but on top I looked fine. Talking to the boys about that and talking to you about that, you know, and reaching out to different people for support was so important. And also going to Narelle and talking to her, James actually ended up booking me an appointment because

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because I didn’t ask him specifically, but he was like, I know you need this. So just have that support ready is the biggest thing. Sometimes when you’re in the darkness or the confusion, although we say we’re independent women, yes, I will ask for the help when I need it. When you’re in that world, you’re not that articulate. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that definitely the head heart hormones was my head and my heart were like, this baby is arriving with her parents. Like, I’m so happy for them. I’m so happy for me. This is all being

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done, but then my hormones were like, you’ve just lost a baby. Where’s the baby? Where is it? Where can we get it? We don’t talk enough about that. In some ways, the only other parallels of women who have experienced this are probably stillbirths where their body is grieving the baby.

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And so that yearning and that searching that I imagine happened, but it’s weird because there’s a live baby here and it’s happy as well. so everyone’s like, aren’t you happy? And you’re like, yeah, two thirds of me. But your body is sad.

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And it affects us all differently. Some think to navigate that okay, but it really is a big, part of this. So does that then lead you to either anything you would do differently or any advice for surrogates who either haven’t had children or just any surrogates in general? I actually distinctly remember my mum saying, you’re going to grieve this baby once it’s with you. And I was like, I remember talking to the boys like, this is never gonna happen. La la la la la. It happened.

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prepare yourself for that grief and have that surrogacy psych support ready, like local that you can just reach out to, like organize with your IPs to have a bank card of theirs or something of that line. So you don’t need to explain to them what’s happening. But I always like, like I’d always type to the boys and said, Hey, I’m using it for this. And they’re like, yeah, cool. Awesome. Fabulous. Go ahead. Just to have that bank card to book yourself an appointment to see a psychologist if you need it. And just communication, I think the only real family member that

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felt like I could confide in that’s really close to me is actually listening in this chat don’t get ahead big head Nat was my little sister Natalie who just helped me through everything so yeah well we are pleased that Natalie was in your life and and to have people like Natalie and even our chats but as you say others too that there’s no judgment that you can have your up and downs or the downs in particular and

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We know you don’t want the baby back. That’s okay. Yeah. Yeah. Just absolutely Just to reiterate that absolutely That’s right. Sorry don’t want the baby they don’t so yeah Well done for navigating that and then the milk journey head was about two months of pumping was it I’m just less than two months that I had a massive supply I’m very fortunate to actually have had that I was so so wanting to do that bread like the pumping journey, but all of us agreed that breastfeeding

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feeding wasn’t for us direct breastfeeding, definitely for other people like yourself, but definitely not for me. I felt like the bond might’ve been a bit too much for me because I haven’t had my own kid. Yeah, that was a decision we made together. The pumping was intense. And I think if you haven’t had kids and you’re planning on pumping and being surrogate, like preparing yourself that you’re going to be sitting in your home, having possibly the longest time off work that you’ve ever had and sitting in your house, possibly all alone.

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with a breast pump on or going oh my goodness I’m leaking through everything in the shopping center because the breast pad overflowed. You’re in the supermarket leaking and you don’t have a baby to show for it. Yeah and no baby no nappy bag no nothing. something milk is around the clock like it’s three four hourly and then they’re sterilizing cleaning cooling the milk labeling the milk there’s a lot that goes into it. And then like delivery of the milk.

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as well which I was very fortunate that the boys were like yeah just come over you know you can spend time with Lenny while you pump or whatever and then and deliver the milk and so she had. What’s the distance in time or travel between you guys? It’s about 20 minutes via a toll road yeah very very local Logan to Brisbane. Well there we go well one of your IPs now parents James has asked what was the hardest part of the journey?

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and what advice would you give to other first time surrogates? Definitely the hardest part was the fourth trimester. Not having my own baby was the hardest thing. I think you guys knew that for the most part. The topic and stuff, was sort of because I was so naive about it still, it was sort of a breeze because I just said, oh, we’ll take it as it comes. But I just didn’t know really what to expect after birth. And I don’t think that that’s really talked about a great deal in general pregnancy, but also surrogacy. That fourth trimester,

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I’m very fortunate that I didn’t have postnatal depression, but I also like it was intense. You had some challenges my friend. Yeah. Yeah. But also like going from, I was sick all the way through my pregnancy. So I was vomiting around the clock. had one total day of not vomiting. So it was great fun. But even, even navigating coming off hormone medications, postpartum hair loss, all of the fun.

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stuff. I unfortunately have enough hair to lose. But yeah, just just being, I think being aware of all of those things that you need to sort of put in place for that and expecting. It’s easy to laugh and say, grief won’t hit me when this, you know, hand this baby back because all the way through it, I’m like, I’m so happy she’s going like, I’m uncomfortable, I can’t sleep. But then as soon as she was gone, I was like, oh, my goodness, I did actually lean on Jenny as well through the BIOC team to

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It was amazing as well. So I had such a great support network to get me through this all, which is the biggest thing would be my advice for. You need it, don’t you? And you need to talk to other surrogates. And that’s what we hope to implement. That’s what we do implement for SAS teams. And some of that counseling is prepaid so that you don’t even have to ask. But having these mentors and other people to talk to, like yourself, who’ve done this journey, just helps to normalize it too. And even the midwives like Aunty Jenny and stuff to help you go, this is fine.

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your feeling and to have a cry with them and have people. Many cries. But even my big sisters too, one of my sisters had a baby in June last year, so we were pregnant at the same time as well and just chatting with her and chatting to my oldest sister who I think is on this chat as well. She like really helped me with Snapchat every day and I’d sort of just vent to her. So yeah, just having everybody and drawing everybody in.

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James and Caleb’s families would message and check on me. So it was just beautiful. just, felt like, you know, like having, having my best friend Dunningale and, just having everybody there. So good. well done. And so many of your support team are here tonight listening. So we say thank you to all of them. Thanks for coming. But also for them, you’ve now educated them about how surrogacy can work and they in turn tell other people. And we helped to normalise this so that when Lenny grows up, there’s more people who have families that look like her families. Well done.

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bringing so many people in as you say you really need that support network and it’s not always people who are doing the journey it is your own friends and your family so as you say so you can have vent to them and just normalize things like you know sending messages and snapchats and stuff like that to just keep you sane. Well done to your whole team I think you’re a shining example as a team of how surrogacy done well in Australia and as the psychologists say easy when even when it’s going smooth it’s still hard. Oh yeah. I think that’s for your team you had lots of great things in place but the

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There are still hard times and things, there? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Is there anything else that you would like to say that we haven’t touched on? I don’t think so, but thanks everyone who came. I can see a few thank you messages in the chat as well. So thanks for coming and joining me on this journey. It’s still a bit of an extension of our surrogacy journey, I guess, being able to share with other surrogates and IPs and sort of, you know, bringing you in to as much information as we possibly can. Thank you for joining me.

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If you’d like to see the photos shared in this webinar presentation, head over to our YouTube channel to watch the webinar. You can head to surrogacyaustralia.org for more information about surrogacy. Also check out our Zoom monthly catch-up sessions, which are a great way to connect with others in the surrogacy community. Attending a Zoom is scary the first time, but there’s only ever one first time. We have all been beginners at some stage. As we say, it takes a village to raise a child.

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And in the case of surrogacy, it takes a village to make a child. So welcome to the village.